SMK bullets for .308

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kimberman

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I'm working up loads for my rem 700 VSF .308. I got some 150 gr smk's (2190) and I got 168 gr smk's (2200). Reading some of the other threads here, and reading the sierra manual, I came up with a couple questions. It sounds like the 168gr bullets are bad news........ why is that?:confused: they seem to fly out of my rifle not too bad. I'm also wondering what the difference is between the 150's and the 155 palma smk's? Should I be using the 155's instead? Or should I be going heavier, (180's, or 190's)? I'm just playing with loads at short ranges but once I get something going I'd like to try and stretch her out a little.

I've also noticed that it likes milder loads better than hot ones. My best group so far is 42gr Varget with the 168's, 46gr being the max published load. Is that a trend with the .308 or is that just the way my rig is tuned?

I have a 26" tube with a 12" twist.
 
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I have a Rem SPS V that loves 168 SMK bullets...

I havent hand loaded yet, but just using the Federal Gold Medal Match whenever I want better accuracy.
 
Thee Load

Everyone's rifle will like differnt loads. Even rifles that are the same make and model can have different likes and dis likes. Probably not huge differences but a little bit just the same.
That's half the fun of shooting is the time spent working up and building "thee" load that shoots for you and your specific rifle. I know guys that have been shooting for years and spend a summer or sometimes a year working up the perfect load till it really shoots,,,,,, then they sell the rifle and start over. Its how they get their fun.

The choice of bullets will depend on your personal choices. What do you want from your rifle, are you gonna be shooting 100 yd targets all the time, are you gonna be shooting at 800-1000 yds? Are you sensitive to recoil ? Is your barrell a heavy or light barrell?

A favourite bullet of the long range shooters is the 155 smk's, pushed by 45.5 gr of varget this load really performs for alot of guys.

I think they like the little extra speed vs the weight for the long range work.

I know a lot of guys shooting 168's for shorter ranges and they work fantastic and group well.

6mmbr.com has good write ups on different calibers and you should check out the .308 section.

M.
 
I have the remington fluted heavy barrell, and recoil seems almost pleasant compared to some of my hunting outfits. I guess I'm thinking about it like a hunting rifle, since thats where most of my experience is. To me a heavier bullet will have more retained energy at long distances..... this is important for a 400yd shot at a mulie (or whatever animal) for a good kill. Not so important when shooting paper, lol. Thats sort of why I picked the 168 to start with, but maybe not the right idea. To me I can't see much difference between a 150 gr bullet and a 155gr bullet, but there must be enough difference that sierra would handle both products.
 
I'm running 175SMKs over 44.5gr of Varget. Stretched it out to 1000yards for the first time on the weekend and it held great.

I believe, and I'm open to being corrected, that the larger mass bullets work a little bit better at longer range as their momentum carries them and buck the wind a little better. But I think we're talking tiny, tiny, tiny advantage.
 
Kimberman,
The 168 SMK can be a terrific bullet for short to mid range shooting (out to 600-700 yards from a .308 Win). However at long range the bullet has a unique problem. Dynamic instability results from the specific angle and length of the boat tail. The result is the bullet flies with increasing 'coning' motion at long range and significantly reduces the effective BC and accuracy goes down the tubes.

As long as you stay inside 600 yards, you won't have a problem with it, just know the limit is there.

If you're looking at light/middle weight SMK's, I highly recommend the new 155 grain Palma bullet. Be careful not to order the old 155 Palma bullet (PN:2155), get the new one (PN:2156). It's a re-design of the old bullet and has far better ballistic performance and is very easy to get accurate loads. Jumping 0.010" to 0.020" has worked in every rifle I know of.

The Berger 155.5 grain FULLBORE bullet is another fine option in this class.

Good luck,
-Bryan
 
Hi Bryan, any thoughts on how the #2156 would do in a factory Remington chamber, i.e. assume that you'd have at least .100"-.150" of jump? (last time I measured, which was quite a while ago, they were miles long in the throat).

I haven't gotten my hands on the #2156 Sierra yet, but I am really looking forward to it; it sounds like a wonderful bullet overall, with an interesting feature of being very suitable for use in short-throated chambers. (My understanding is that a chambering commonly used by many American Palma shooters is the 95 Warner Palma, which has an unusually short throat. Apparently the #2156 has a nice amount of bullet in the neck when loaded in these chambers, i.e. the boattail junction is above the case's neck/shoulder junction.) In my own case, my target rifles have .308 Obermayer chambers, which have fairly short throats (though they are about .032" longer than the 95 Warner Palma). I presently shoot Lapua 155s, which are quite mismatched to my chamber; I have to push the 155 Lapua in much deeper than I would prefer to. Were I making a chamber especially for the 155 Lapua, I would likely make its throat about .150" longer than a .308 Obermayer.

BTW Bryan, I think it's pretty darn classy of you to give a straight-up, honest answer about the bullets made by your company's competitor (i.e. that they're a pretty fine bullet).

I haven't shot the Berger 155.5 Fullbore bullet myself, but I know several top-notch F/TR shooters who have, and it looks like it is one of the topnotch bullets in its class. Speaking of which, we Palma and F/TR shooters sure are spoiled, we have a plethora of first-rate 155-class bullets to choose from...!

Kimberman, factory rifles can be a bit of a lottery, and can exhibit a great deal of unit-to-unit variation, e.g. your 700VSF might not like a load that shoots well in your buddy's 700VSF (for instance, you find that your rifle seems to have a definite preference for lighter loads). For a number of different reasons, custom-built target rifles are usually *much* less "fussy" about ammo - they tend to shoot pretty much any ammunition, hot medium or mild, very well.

Kimberman, you will likely be able to get Sierra 168s shooting very well for you. Use them with confidence up to 600 yards (and possibly even 800 yards). If you can't get them shooting well for you it could be due to the fact that it can be impossible to get reasonably near the lands with them in a factory Remington .308 chamber. If that is the case, you can try using Sierra 190s - they are a long enough bullet that you are able to approach or touch the lands in a factory Remington chamber (your ammo will look *ridiculously* long, there's no way it will feed through the magazine, but you will likely be able to get extremely good accuracy with them. There will be somewhat increased recoil, and fairly low muzzle velocity (2550-ish); these may or may not matter)
 
I really like the Sierra 168 and 175 SMK's. Recently, a friend got me to try the Lapua 150 lock base, and 150 Scenar...both have higher BC's than the Sierra 168..Both my 308 bolt guns really like those bullets, and with the lighter bullet, I can get quite a bit more velocity, AND with a higher BC..

But the availability of the Sierra bullets still makes them very attractive..it is a pain to have to order and wait for the Lapua's..
 
I just got 300 rounds of Lapua 167gr Scenars. I have yet try them out in my PGW Coyote, but according to Peter Dobson at Hirsh Precison these rounds will work nicely in my tube. I have had really good results with the 175gr SMK, hard to get in a loaded round though. ANyone tried the 167 Lapuas?
 
no one, we have tens of thousands of Lapua GB491 154 grain Scenars and ship as quickly as any business. At NSRA Provincial last weekend, Ken Kyle, RNBRA, cleaned up in FClass with these, loading into lands of Obermeyer chamber and hot. Our Bisley shooters that used these bullets also made us(Canada and Lapua) proud.

Regards,

Peter Dobson
Hirsch Precisiion inc.
 
Anyone looking at Lapua bullets,

Don't underestimate the 30 cal 185gr scenar as well as the 30 cal 170 gr lock base.

I've tried the whole lapua gamit of 30 cal match bullets (all a top quality).
 
I have only used 168 gr. SMK to date. But I learnt something new again last weekend at MPRA.
A few guys asked which bullet I am using... they noted it might be OK up to 900 yards, 1000 not sure. They were right on the money. It appears the 168 will go subsonic after 900 yds, which will make it less accurate... I don't really know yet why that might be but that proved to be the culprit.
I was given a free box of 155 SMK Palmas by another great gunnut, I will stick with them from now on. Still have to test these yet but sure they won't go subsonic at 1000 yards.
 
Maqati, see post #6 above by Bryan Litz - he explains why the Sierra 168s fall apart at long range (usually they're OK to 900 yards, but all over the place by 1000 yards... as you've discovered! ;-).
 
The SMK 155's are great, but I've no experience with the new version; I switched over to the Amax 155's, and so far they're just as good (still working up a load), and slightly cheaper too!
 
The 168gr weight has shot wonderfully for me in many of my 308's. 155's were also great.

I shot Amax at the time and these two had no issue going a VERY long ways away.

Some bullets don't like going subsonic, others don't seem to miss a beat.

If the bullet shoots well for you and you want to reach out, go for it. Will be pretty obvious if it will not work.

I watched a 175gr MK fall apart at 1400yds from a very accurate HS rifle (Blackcloud should know this one but he didn't shoot it). 1350 and it was spooky consistent. Go further, spray and pray. Was a hoot repeating this several times.

Then the next year, I saw a very similar load go to 1800yds with very respectable accuracy - different rifle.

Why in one and not the other?

Push it to the horizon and see what happens...

Jerry
 
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