AR15 rack grade accuracy

Page 11 of MIL-C-71186 (The spec for the M4 Carbine) lists the minimum acceptable "extreme spread" as 5 inches at 100 yards (91.3 metres) for the M4.
 
ian_in_vic said:
Page 11 of MIL-C-71186 (The spec for the M4 Carbine) lists the minimum acceptable "extreme spread" as 5 inches at 100 yards (91.3 metres) for the M4.
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that's what I read as well and from what I understand, the rifle is shot from a rail which means that it should have the exact same point of aim for every shot. It's obvious that they are not the most accurate production rifle and that it is issued to GI's :redface:
 
Cancer is correct.

For combat units in the forces the minimum requirement is 2.5" at 100 yrds~m

If a rifle is shown to have issues it will goto the support armourer for tweaking.
 
The biggest issue for M4's has been the accuracy of US issue M855

It has an acceptance size of 4MOA


I've recently (last week) seen Army (not SOCOM) M4's shoot submoa with 70gr ammo and 77gr Mk262.
 
What ammo are the rifles tested with?

I would be pretty unnerved I think to be shooting a rifle my life depended on it that rifle was a 5" gun with match ammo, and got issued 4" M855! I mean what would that combination work out to, a ten MOA gun?

I am really speaking of theory and worst case scenario here...I get that a gun that shoots groups that big would get pulled and tweaked. But not until after being detected! Even a 2.5 MOA gun, if it was 2.5 MOA with match ammo, might be pretty imprecise with 4 MOA ammo.

It's interesting to consider ammo as a critical component of accuracy...lots of guys I have known got very worked up about the technical requirements of a rifle to be very accurate, but didn't spend a whole lot of time thinking about the ammo it would be fed in the field.

Of course I have known guys who thought carefully about the whole package...but still you get fanboys for one maker or another obsessing about the accuracy of the 416 or SIG or whatever, and how they should be issued to all troops, but they don't then go on to talk about what has to change in the ammo supply in order to take advantage of that increase in accuracy!

OTOH I have seen guys who claimed sub-moa groups out of a stock 858 using Czech surplus...and since obviously that is eminently believable I guess the ammo isn't an issue.
 
The funny thing with the US M4s is that they shoot really well with CDN IVI ammo. I have had several 6920s and 921 M4 top ends and while they have all generally sucked with Federal commercial 62 grain ammo they kick ass with 62 grain IVI, 63 grain RUAG and I have a 77 grain SMK load that rocks to 200m. I have not grouped it to 500m though but it shot well with 75 grain Hornady to 500m. I think the barrels will shoot but as KB has stated the ammo is the weak point. Incidentally I have yet to see a Colt barrel (save one) that will not see 55 grain ammo touching from a bench with a good scope.
 
I beginning to think that a lot of military rifles get a poorer reputation for accuracy than they deserve, owing significantly to the ammunition. My AR is quite sensitive to ammunition choice. If a guy didn't know better, he'd just say 3-4" is the limitation of the rifle, when he might be wrong and selling it short.
 
sparrow said:
The funny thing with the US M4s is that they shoot really well with CDN IVI ammo. I have had several 6920s and 921 M4 top ends and while they have all generally sucked with Federal commercial 62 grain ammo they kick ass with 62 grain IVI, 63 grain RUAG and I have a 77 grain SMK load that rocks to 200m. I have not grouped it to 500m though but it shot well with 75 grain Hornady to 500m. I think the barrels will shoot but as KB has stated the ammo is the weak point. Incidentally I have yet to see a Colt barrel (save one) that will not see 55 grain ammo touching from a bench with a good scope.
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X1

While IVI has a bit of a checkered history, the current C77 ammo from IVI is top notch and some of the best and most accurate military ball ammo that is around right now.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
I beginning to think that a lot of military rifles get a poorer reputation for accuracy than they deserve, owing significantly to the ammunition.
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Not to digress too much, but this is applicable to almost every rifle you can think of! Just replace the word military with hunting, varmint, rimfire, etc.
 
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Current issue US M855 is WAY better than before, and while I dont think its up to good lots of CF IVI -- it is not the minute of barndoor it was before and will do under 2 MOA in good hands.
 
"In a world of compromise, some don't HK"
Actually the Colt M4 I used course in May was pretty darn accurate, almost as good as the HK.
I still think my Swiss Arms Full size is more accurate but not a fair comparison as it's got a 20" barrel.
I'm really starting to like the MR223, very happy with it. They are pricey though.
Good Barrel, good bullets, good trigger, 80% of the rest is the shooter.

Rich
 
This is in support of what Misanthropist had said about subMOA groups out of CZ858. I shot chech surplus ammo out of my 858 using a re-mountable cheap s**t of a scope (Leapers Bugbuster on a bracket that slides in and out of the slot mounted on left side of the receiver - I think they call them SKS/AK mounts) and got a 1" group at 100 yds. Let me tell you, maybe it's me, but I can't get even close to that with my Colt AR-15 A2 with the ACOG mounted on the flat top! Go figure...
 
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