Sighting in issues.

peacefrog

peacefrog

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So I am having a very hard time getting consistent/any good groups on paper with my Bushmaster 16" Hbar 1:9 twist rifle. I have the gun set up with a Troy 10" free float rail, Troy BUIS frt and back and a temporary red dot Bushnell trophy scope.

I have tried a few types of ammo but mostly burning off some I.M.G. 55gr stuff I had. But it's/I'm all over the place - can't even group nice at 25 or 50Metres, 100 is hit (and mostly miss).

Seems ammo could be a factor from what I've been told. Like I said I had this IMG 55gr ammo, that seemed to work fine in a 20" barrel cobbled together AR with a 3-9x scope, but I'm all over the place with flip up troy irons on the Bushmaster and the same ammo.

I started by getting on paper at 25M. I had to turn the windage 6 clicks right on the rear to get centered and dropped front sight 4 clicks. At 100M I might as well be shooting with my eyes closed for the results I'm getting. Should I start again with new ammo? Should I use a different technique? I've never shot a lot of rifle with iron sights, scopes make up for a lot of sins, but irons are always there in a pinch.

Anyone have any suggestions of a good load for the Bushy? I'm assuming I should be able to get a nice group at 100M from a 16" barrel. What should I expect/be happy with for iron sights at 100M range?

The 20" barrel gun likes 62gr winchester well enough - but that gets expensive. Shot a nice tight group, after shooting a good (more open) group with the same 55gr IMG stuff that the Bushmaster is not liking too much.

Sorry for the lenghty post, thought the more info in this case the better.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. :(
 
Between iron sights and the shooter error, your answer lies in between. Ammo for the most part is a non issue unless you're looking for extreme accuracy. Even so, iron sights and match ammo does not easily translate into tight groups without a very consistent shooter behind the gun. AR's are combat rifles not F class bolt guns.

What kind of groups are you getting at 25 and 100 yards?

Are you zeroing with the large or small aperture?

Are you firing from the bench with or without support?

TDC
 
I was shooting from a bench, no rest, just elbows. Using the larger apature on the iron sights. Groups at 25M were around 4-5 inches, at 100M I might have 3 out 5 on paper but well spread out - up, right, down, at least 10 inches apart.

I want to try again, but I will buy a set of sandbag rests for the next outing. Any ideas on a good/not to expensive cartridge. Any other thoughts as to technique. I'm a pistol shooter for the most part, mostly new to rifle shooting.

Thanks much
 
For increased accuracy I try ridding the second stage of the trigger. Meaning when I press the trigger for the first shot I slowly release the the trigger untill I hear the "CLICK" sound. This means that the trigger has reset and now is ready to be pulled again. By using this meathod I have noticed that;
1. The length of pull is shorter and hence less wandering zero.
2. The trigger wieght is much lighter and hence less time to flinch.

Go here for learning how to properly zero your rifle;
shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/USAMU3-2/usamu3-2.html

Also try using a nationl match sling.
3K-25400N-L.jpg


Go here for more info on how to use a sling to get better shots with the AR15 rifle;
shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/USAMU3-4/usamu3-4.html

Hope this help's you out and don't froget to put the http://www. in front of the web address.
 
peacefrog said:
I was shooting from a bench, no rest, just elbows. Using the larger apature on the iron sights. Groups at 25M were around 4-5 inches, at 100M I might have 3 out 5 on paper but well spread out - up, right, down, at least 10 inches apart.

I want to try again, but I will buy a set of sandbag rests for the next outing. Any ideas on a good/not to expensive cartridge. Any other thoughts as to technique. I'm a pistol shooter for the most part, mostly new to rifle shooting.

Thanks much
Click to expand...

Definitely bag it, or support the rifle with some form of rest. The goal when zeroing is to eliminate the human element thus achieving mechanical zero. The Troy BUIS has a same plane aperture which means both settings are located on the same plane with the front sight. That being the case, use the smaller aperture to zero. This will force your eye to centre the front sight post more "precisely" in the rear ghosted aperture.

The trigger advice is sound. Squeeze slowly. Once the rifle fires keep the trigger pressed to the rear. Settle the rifle back on target then slowly release the trigger only enough to hear a "click" which is the sear resetting. Once the "click" is heard, hold the trigger until ready to shoot again.

TDC
 
Try the small aperture. Have you shot using a peep sight before?? Focus on the front sight post, your brain should centre it in the aperture. Also make sure you pick a good target. Anything with a black circle should work OK - use the smallest circle that you can see clearly. I find those green/orange/red sighting targets to be useless with irons.
 
raks said:
Try the small aperture. Have you shot using a peep sight before?? Focus on the front sight post, your brain should centre it in the aperture. Also make sure you pick a good target. Anything with a black circle should work OK - use the smallest circle that you can see clearly. I find those green/orange/red sighting targets to be useless with irons.
Click to expand...

On regular AR15 sights the small aperture is used for longer range shooting, correct? Are the apertures always in the same plane with the front sight, or are they slightly different to compensate for the increased distance, or simply smaller to aid in targeting at the longer ranges.

Sorry if this qualifies as a stupid question -
 
TDC said:
Definitely bag it, or support the rifle with some form of rest. The goal when zeroing is to eliminate the human element thus achieving mechanical zero. The Troy BUIS has a same plane aperture which means both settings are located on the same plane with the front sight. That being the case, use the smaller aperture to zero. This will force your eye to centre the front sight post more "precisely" in the rear ghosted aperture.

The trigger advice is sound. Squeeze slowly. Once the rifle fires keep the trigger pressed to the rear. Settle the rifle back on target then slowly release the trigger only enough to hear a "click" which is the sear resetting. Once the "click" is heard, hold the trigger until ready to shoot again.

TDC
Click to expand...

Good advice. I realize you answered a follow up question I just asked of raks -
I already checked the barrel and it is rock solid no play. My other AR had a loose barrel which I did lock down prior to using and it shot great with 55gr and finally with the Winchester 62gr.

Any opinions on a good factory load for the Bushmaster? I know if I find something the gun likes I will keep using it, but for zeroing in, should I stick with one brand or try a few to find the best one for that gun in the process of zeroing or once I am zeroed?
 
albog said:
Try a Swiss made RUAG ammo - it's costly, but gave me excellent groups with both AR-15 and SL8.
Click to expand...


Again, the above is a good start. I would suggest you zero with a factory ammo that fits one of two criteria. Consistently accurate, such as the RUAG mentioned. Number 2, ammo that is readily available.

By zeroing with "good" or "match" grade ammo you'll eliminate it(ammo) as a cause for poor or inconsistent groupings. Subsequently this will also demonstrate the inherent accuracy/consistency of the rifle as well. Of course this all hinges on a solid shooting position and a consistent operator.;):D

Zeroing with readily available ammo ensures you won't be zeroing every other session with a different brand/weight.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Again, the above is a good start. I would suggest you zero with a factory ammo that fits one of two criteria. Consistently accurate, such as the RUAG mentioned. Number 2, ammo that is readily available.

By zeroing with "good" or "match" grade ammo you'll eliminate it(ammo) as a cause for poor or inconsistent groupings. Subsequently this will also demonstrate the inherent accuracy/consistency of the rifle as well. Of course this all hinges on a solid shooting position and a consistent operator.;):D

Zeroing with readily available ammo ensures you won't be zeroing every other session with a different brand/weight.

TDC
Click to expand...

Okay. So shopping for sandbag rest and ammo on Tuesday - there goes another $500. :eek: Off to the range on Wednesday when it's nice and not crowded so I can take my time and get this sorted out. Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if this operator can redeem himself.:redface:
 
Peacefrog, I don't know where your location is, but Target Sports in Gormley, ON (north of Toronto) and Shooting Edge in Calgary usually carry the RUAG ammo.
 
albog said:
Peacefrog, I don't know where your location is, but Target Sports in Gormley, ON (north of Toronto) and Shooting Edge in Calgary usually carry the RUAG ammo.
Click to expand...

Thanks albog. I'm actually close to Target Sports, so I'll check on the RUAG ammo even though I know it's pricey stuff. I think Target also has some stuff going around $500-600/1000. Federal or Winchester I think. With my luck the gun will probabley LOVE the expensive stuff!

Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep you posted.
 
I'd try shooting it first with a scope to determine the limitations of the ammo you are using. I'm finding some factory ammo (UMC 55gr) in my 1:7 AR produces wild flyers in approx 25% of shots and these are eliminated when using other ammo (reloads or expensive match grade ammo). If i didn't know this, I'd develop a lot of superstition over my technique.
 
TDC said:
There's nothing wrong with running 55gr through a 1/9.
Click to expand...

....or a 1:7....

Honestly, any quality factory ammo should give you a consistant, decent group; white boxed 'USA' brand Winchester included. Is it going to provide you enough data to figure out the limitations of mechanical accuracy? - there isn't much stuff out there that will, and when you find it, you sure as hell aren't going to find it firing off of sand bags....
 
4-5 inches at 25 meters sounds like a problem. That would make for a 16-20" pattern at 100, all things staying equal.

Do they pattern at all and then send a flier or are they scattergun? Are they more vertical or horizontal in dispersion or are they all over the place?

Definately have to rest it. After that it's the checklist:
a) is your cheek weld consistent?
b) do you have a natural body position to the target
c) Are your eyes focused on the front post (rear app and target should be blurry)
d) Are you aiming at the same spot of the target consistently (this is my biggest challenge especially at distances past 50m).
e) Is your trigger pull straight back and even pressured?
f) Are you flinching?
g) How's the grip? Tight?
 
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Everyone here is giving excellent advice! Just to check the sighting in process, are you shooting minimum 3-4 shot groups before you readjust? If I were in your shoes I would get some sort of shooting rest and rubber pads for the elbows and shoot real slow using the advice of the other guys here. Another thought to eliminate some of the problems here make sure you wear eye and ear protection. Make your self too comfortable and that will help with the flinching. Or plink with a .22 for a while. It is cheaper to shoot and will help you with your technique. Best of luck!
 
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