AARs - SMC Consulting Basic Rifle 29-30Aug09

I will add in my thoughts on the course as well.
Overall the course was well worth the time and money. Like was already mentioned it was a good opportunity to have someone else decideing on the drills and making you work on something you may not have been the most familiar with or comfortable in doing. In my case that was support side shooting, not something I have done a lot of. By the end of the crse though I was becoming more comfortable shooting the weapon left handed and equally important solving various immediate actions as required, a skill that does require some practice and thought before doing it well with the opposite hand from that normally used.
Big Red gave us the room to push our skills until they started to get sloppy and then helped us to back it off and work on getting better. That was certainly the case with accuracy, my own included, the faster we shot the larger the groups but I feel that as the days went on the groups either shrank or stayed the same while the speed of the drills increased.

No matter how I look at it, the two days were well worth it. A lot was learned, not earth shattering revelations, but little tips and ideas that proved there worth during the course.
One of the great things was the chance to get to take a look and the equipment and rifles that the others were running, and see what they liked about their set ups.

Cheers,
 
A dissenting opinion

I have been debating with myself ever since taking the course about posting my opinion since I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers and likely cause some bad blood. Notwithstanding, I think what I have to say is important enough that it needs to be said so future customers can make a truly informed decision before spending their money with SMC Consulting and / or Rauch Tactical.

Unlike many of the other posters, I do not believe I received good value for my money. While I will be the first to admit that Big Red is a knowledgeable instructor, that the course content was well structured and that my skill at arms benefitted from taking the training, the organization / admin side of the course was strictly Amateur Hour. I think Big Red has a worthwhile service to sell, that being rifle marksmanship training, but he has a long way to go to put it into a high quality, customer service oriented professional package.

By way of backgound about myself and so everyone can see where I'm coming from, I have been shooting competitively for the better part of 20 years in numerous shooting disciplines and been nationally ranked in two of them. I have served on the boards of directors of several gun clubs, have been match director for countless precision rifle, two (or three) gun, defensive pistol and other matches. I have organized, attended and instructed basic and advanced shooting skills courses. My employer has also invested a significant amount of money in making sure I can shoot straight and fast.

In all those years I have never paid (or charged) as much for a training session or match as I did for the SMC course. The course fee was $400 in total or put another way $200 per day for two days. I had high expectations about what I would receive for that kind of $. I feel I was sorely let down. SMC and Rauch completely failed to grasp the point that they are selling a service to paying customers, not doing me a favour by allowing me to attend some secret society meeting.

Let me offer the following incidents in support of my position:

1) I received joining instructions telling me to be at the rendevous point in Winnipeg at 0715h the first morning to convoy to the range. I was on time. Neither the course host nor instructor were. Once the convoy finally departed the hotel some half hour later it proceeded 200 feet down the road then pulled into a McDonalds so Big Red, Suprathepeg (Rauch Tactical's alter ego) and others could stop for breakfast. So to start the first morning, the paying customers had to sit and wait while the course organizers ate. In my opinion there's simply no excuse for that. I got my ass out of bed, fed and to the meeting point on time as did most other candidates. No way should we have had to wait for the course organizers to go for breakfast.

2) Upon finally arriving at the range, it was not ready. Course candidates had to drag their own target frames 200 yds down range and rig the range. When I discussed this with Suprathepeg his response was that in the army they had to rig their own ranges. I tried to point out that in that situation the army was paying those people to be there and shoot. In this case I am a paying customer and given the substantial course fee being charged I should not have to be a range monkey.

3) Big Red's curriculum included shooting from behind barricades. Unfortunately neither he nor Suprathepeg had made any arrangement to have barricades present. The class was forced to wait while make-do barricades were scrounged up by a candidate who also happened to be a member of the range where the course was held. Had it not been for that person there would not have been any barricades to use. As it was, there were only 2 barricades and some plastic 45 gallon barrels available. So as a result of the lack of preparation instead of everyone being on the line at the same time, 11 candidates had to take turns on the two barricades.

4) Big Red was the lone instructor and safety officer. There were just too many things going on for Big Red to really monitor the line adequately by himself. Given the type of drills the candidates were being run through on day two a second set of eyes was a necessity. I witnessed a couple of safety violations during the second afternoon which made me queasy. In particular, in one instance while doing a "Peel" drill, a candidate swept me and the rest of the class uprange with the muzzle of his loaded gun. In a second instance I watched a candidate do a mag change on the move while pointing the muzzle of his gun at the back of another cadidate the entire time. I have to assume Big Red simply didn't see either one of those little gems as he never addressed them with the offending candidates.

5) The course was advertised as for LEO / Mil candidates only. Upon my arrival I was informed that there were also civilian candidates. I was not given advance notice of the change or offered an opportunity to withdraw if that posed a concern for me. A little truth in advertising goes a long way.

6) A situation arose on the second day which was extremely irresponsible and disrespectful to me and my occupation. Instead of correcting the situation or even attempting to address it, both Big Red and Suprathepeg condoned it and participated. I have spoken at length with Suprathepeg about the matter and suffice to say I'm not convinced he got the message I tried to impart to him about the potential consequences of his and Big Red's actions. Please don't ask or PM to find out what took place I'm not going to respond. Those that need to know already know what I'm talking about.

I'm sure that some of you will accuse me of being petty and that my concerns are not that significant but I counter you that I paid SMC my hard earned money in the expectation of receiving a quality service and I simply don't believe it was provided at a level commensurate with the fee.

In closing, as I wrote earlier, I think Big Red has a worthwhile service to sell, that being rifle marksmanship training, but he has a long way to go to put it into a high quality, customer service oriented professional package.

Unfortunately for me given the limited number of opportunities to get this kind of instruction, I will not be attending or recommending to others to attend any courses instructed by SMC Consulting or hosted by Rauch Tactical until such time as Big Red and Suprathepeg can demonstrate that they've taken my concerns to heart.
 
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prairieguy said:
1) I received joining instructions telling me to be at the rendevous point in Winnipeg at 0715h the first morning to convoy to the range. I was on time. Neither the course host nor instructor were. Once the convoy finally departed the hotel some half hour later it proceeded 200 feet down the road then pulled into a McDonalds so Big Red, Suprathepeg (Rauch Tactical's alter ego) and others could stop for breakfast. So to start the first morning, the paying customers had to sit and wait while the course organizers ate. In my opinion there's simply no excuse for that. I got my ass out of bed, fed and to the meeting point on time as did most other candidates. No way should we have had to wait for the course organizers to go for breakfast.

The reason we were waiting in the parking lot was to ensure that nobody was left behind. Only when arriving at the range it was apparant that several students had made their own way there. As for hitting the drivethru with some students, yes we did. It took a total of a couple minutes.
2) Upon finally arriving at the range, it was not ready. Course candidates had to drag their own target frames 200 yds down range and rig the range. When I discussed this with Suprathepeg his response was that in the army they had to rig their own ranges. I tried to point out that in that situation the army was paying those people to be there and shoot. In this case I am a paying customer and given the substantial course fee being charged I should not have to be a range monkey.

Sorry, on SMC courses you will be required to change your own targets, just like any other course that I have ever been on. Just because you are a paying student doesn't mean you won't be required to do a little bit of manual labour.

3) Big Red's curriculum included shooting from behind barricades. Unfortunately neither he nor Suprathepeg had made any arrangement to have barricades present. The class was forced to wait while make-do barricades were scrounged up by a candidate who also happened to be a member of the range where the course was held. Had it not been for that person there would not have been any barricades to use. As it was, there were only 2 barricades and some plastic 45 gallon barrels available. So as a result of the lack of preparation instead of everyone being on the line at the same time, 11 candidates had to take turns on the two barricades.

Actually Rauch did make arrangements with the range several weeks prior to have permission to use the drums at my request. The extra barricades were offered to us by an ISPC shooter (much appreciated!). If I am offered superior training aids on the spot I will use them. I don't think you will find too many ranges that are equipped with enough large VTAC style barricades for 11 shooters on the line at once.

4) Big Red was the lone instructor and safety officer. There were just too many things going on for Big Red to really monitor the line adequately by himself. Given the type of drills the candidates were being run through on day two a second set of eyes was a necessity. I witnessed a couple of safety violations during the second afternoon which made me queasy. In particular, in one instance while doing a "Peel" drill, a candidate swept me and the rest of the class uprange with the muzzle of his loaded gun. In a second instance I watched a candidate do a mag change on the move while pointing the muzzle of his gun at the back of another cadidate the entire time. I have to assume Big Red simply didn't see either one of those little gems as he never addressed them with the offending candidates.

I did notice a couple of safety violations which I addressed. If I missed these I apologize. In my range brief I did state that and student could call a cease fire if you saw something unsafe happening. If you saw a rifle pointed at the back of a student I would have been glad if you would have said something to avert a potential issue.

For future courses of this size I am going to take your point onboard and employ an AI to help watch the line. It would certainly make things safer and additional mistakes could be addressed.


5) The course was advertised as for LEO / Mil candidates only. Upon my arrival I was informed that there were also civilian candidates. I was not given advance notice of the change or offered an opportunity to withdraw if that posed a concern for me. A little truth in advertising goes a long way.

That's interesting because you requested a civilian friend of yours to come on the course and I told you it would be fine. The three civilians that attended were vouched for by other students. I can understand the point though and will not mix vetted/vouched civis on a restricted course in the future.

6) A situation arose on the second day which was extremely irresponsible and disrespectful to me and my occupation.
I've emailed you about this several days ago and you neglected to respond.
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I realize this course isn't what you are looking for and it showed. This was SMCs first course and there are learning points I've taken on for future courses. For my first course at a hosted range I think it went quite well and everyone else I've spoken to seemed to enjoy the two days.
 
Unfortunately I couldn't make the course, so the only thing I can comment on is the setting up the range thing. Every course I've been on outside of work, including Blackwater(which has the best assortment of ranges I've ever been on, including DHTC), has required some cooperation by the candidates to set up.
That included moving steel plates and stands from the storage shed on the range to the shooting line. And I fully expect to put up my own targets, no matter where I'm shooting or what course I'm on.

Having been on the line with Big_Red, he's safe and professional, and if I had any questions, was able to answer them in a concise and easy to understand way.

It's been my experience as both a candidate and instructor that sometimes, a candidate and instructor just do not 'gel' well together. This could be for many reasons, ego, arrogance, intimidation, or even the wrong expectations of the material being provided.

Sorry to hear you had a less than satisfactory experience prairieguy.

I do know that I'm going to do my best to get on the next SMC course though! :D
 
prairieguy said:
2) Upon finally arriving at the range, it was not ready. Course candidates had to drag their own target frames 200 yds down range and rig the range. When I discussed this with Suprathepeg his response was that in the army they had to rig their own ranges. I tried to point out that in that situation the army was paying those people to be there and shoot. In this case I am a paying customer and given the substantial course fee being charged I should not have to be a range monkey.
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Anywhere I have been on course, whether it be in-service training or a course I paid for it is normal practice if not required for students to be actively involved in keeping the range running. Posting targets, patching holes in paper, moving target stands and barricades, picking brass and cleaning up ammo boxes, etc, if left up to the instructor you will be missing out on time that you could be shooting if you are going to side line and wait for them to do it. To keep the course content fluid, you need to be involved in keeping the range up and running.
 
Some valid points and equally valid counter-points. From all accounts, this course went very well for a first time. With any course or training run for the first time, there will be hiccups and bugs to work out. I'm sure Kyle Lamb's first couple of courses were anything but smooth, or TR for that matter.

I have always set up targets and picked up brass, only lazy and spoiled people don't do that or help out when required.
 
For those of you who think I'm out to lunch about the course set up, I'm not complaining about having to change targets or pick up brass to keep the course moving. I have no problem doing that and did my share.

My beef is that things weren't ready to go at the start. It's all about appearances. If you want to appear to have a polished, professional product then make your customer's experience as positive as possible.

Ever been to an organized match? For the roughly $25 match entry fee at most matches in Mb you can show up and shoot on a fully set up range. It's been my general experience that a good match director has his targets / barricades / props set up and waiting for the crowd to arrive. Why should this be different? Having the targets and props ready and waiting for the candidates projects an image of preparedness and professionalism.

Big Red you are correct that the breakfast break was short. You are however missing my point. You are selling a service I was your customer. If you are going to ask me to be ready to travel at a certain time then I expect the same courtesy back.

As far as the friend I asked to be included, I gave you his credentials which incude a Mil background and a present job which I believed made him suitable. He was not joe blow off the street.
 
westie47 said:
Some valid points and equally valid counter-points. From all accounts, this course went very well for a first time. With any course or training run for the first time, there will be hiccups and bugs to work out. I'm sure Kyle Lamb's first couple of courses were anything but smooth, or TR for that matter.

I have always set up targets and picked up brass.
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Yup.

And Big Red has not responded back fairly genuinely in my opinion. Not with the hot headed, gas bag 'you don't know how it was in the 'Nam' chicken s**t attitude I have seen in far too many other places.

Sorta speaks to overall disposition.


From what I hear Prairieguy, Red is listening in earnest to ALL parties and looking to improve by reasonably exceeding expectations for the widest group . Looks like its going to evolve as a winner. Well done.
 
sprint,
Sure you've got the syntax right in your first sentence? It doesn't jive with the last one.

Some thoughts on the above critique and response:
-I've paid more (and less) per day for classes than charged by SMC so I don't find SMC's price exorbitant by any stretch.

-Most classes I've been on, the host/instructors have set up the facility prior to class start time with very minimal student assistance. Students have been responsible for pasting holes, but subsequent set-up has been generally done by instructors while students are reloading, etc between drills. Classes that require more relocation of equipment or have bigger props to deal with would require more student help, I'm sure.

-Any lateness in class start has been purely due to students in classes I've attended.

-I've never been on a class where there were enough barricades/props for all students to shoot at the same time.

-Instructor/student ratios have ranged from 1 per 5 to 3 per 18. Never more than a 1 per 6.5 ratio in any class.

-Westie47's comment about "first classes" are certainly applicable. Good planning can minimize a large part, but not all of it.

Note: my experiences are limited to two companies, so I'm not sure what goes on as an industry average.
 
Damn Stevo. Its early morning prior to coffee.

I could just be off. But it seems to me that not everyone is going to be happy as a customer. You listen to their feedback politely. All of them.

But then you still must sift through and decide what you will or won't be.

No immature retorts. Its a good sign.
 
I think the points are valid ones. I don't believe anything fruitful can be accomplished with a rally around the flag mentality and having a particular school be beyond critique. I believe Big Red is looking to put out the best possible product and will take many of the criticisms as constructive and include them in future courses. Rome after all was not built in a day. I will say that of the courses I have been on some have had student work parties and some have not. The learning objectives were met on both styles and I had a lot of fun. I will say that from a strictly personal standpoint I would prefer to be loading mags or listening to a briefing over setting up props and posting targets. Picking up brass at days end is a given and not negotiable. It is funny that no one course has ever delivered everything I hope to see in a package...yet. When it comes to Admin. Romeo Sierra has got it nailed with his Tac. Response courses, coffee in hand at the start time. Modular tents set up with a class room and range ready to go. When it came to instructor experience and teaching ability Tac. Syn and John Beltran were first class, though the Admin side definitely needed help, we however were not required to post targets or set up props. I have also taken courses In-House where the instruction and Admin were so totally Professional but the course ran at 90% because of silly budgetary constraints...ie. not getting the benefit of a full 45rds of sims ammo on each evolution. I think with all this feedback available, SMC is in a position to get it all right eventually, especially given that the lead instructor has "Been to the City and seen the Elephant" so to say.
 
This is "THE" most professional and mature thread i have ever read read on the internet. Ever. Kudo's to both parties
 
winnipegger said:
This is "THE" most professional and mature thread i have ever read read on the internet. Ever. Kudo's to both parties
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It only stands to reason. Both parties have a lot to gain. Big Red stands to streamline the little issues that come up when instructing which only goes to promote more business. Prairieguy(and others) stand to gain a better experience by offering up their views on the good and bad portions of the course. At the end of the day we all want the same thing. More course for our money and more students to take the course which translates into more money for the course.

TDC
 
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