Savage MKIIF insane accuracy!
- Thread starter easyrider604
- Start date
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- Homestead in the Valley
What are you zeroed at, and if zeroed very close how high from the center of your barrel is the center of your scope?
- Location
- Homestead in the Valley
I'll assume you mean Winchester Wildcats.
Plugging the numbers with the Wildcat will get you a 4.67" drop if you are zeroed at 15 yards with your scope 1.6" above the barrel (center to center), but you'll also be 1.13" too high at 50 yards.
Like I said you need to let us know your distance at zero to get a meaningful answer.
A couple of thoughts
Fish
I came across the same info regarding the 14-16" barrel theory. Try http://www.frfrogspad.com/qalist.htm as it is a wealth of information. I am not sure about cutting down a longer barrel to 16" as a way to increase accuracy. My thought is that if a 16" barrel was more accurate then manufacturers, especially the after market ones, would be offering only short barrels.
The fact that we can purchase longer barrels seems to indicate that there is some advantage to longer barrels, even in rimfire calibers. I would admit that it could all be marketing but is 20" was more accurate than the 21" on the Mark II Varmint then Savage would have cone with the shorter barrel to reduce their input cost.
2Bad
Try using ultra super hyper speed ammunition at 100yards and see if that improves your groups.
My FV will shoot one ragged hole at 25yards with winchester T22 but opens to 1" at 50 yards. Now I'm not an expert with this rifle by no means, however I tried Remington sub-sonics and my groups immediately dropped to 0.625" at 50 yards with 4 of 5 touching and one "flyer". My reasoning for this improvement is that standard velocity 22 ammunition (t22s) are slowing through through the trans-sonic flow regime somewhere after 25 yards and the instability of the bullet is causing the groups to open up. The sub-sonics are not affected as they are sub-sonic the whole way and are therefore not affected. The sub-sonics had a drop of 2-3” more than the t22s, which I expected.
If you go to the super high speed ammo then it would stay supersonic all the way out to 100 yards which should improve your groups.
Fluted Barrels
My thought is that it probably does not improve accuracy. The fluting will reduce the stiffness of the barrel in the planes of the flutes hindering accuracy but does reduce its weight which should improve accuracy of the barrel. Which effect is more pronounced would depend on a lot of factors but for us mortal it would probably not mean too much. The fluting would increase the surface area of the barrel so should increase cooling but is would be minimal at best. The disturbance of the shape would most likely create turbulent as opposed to laminar flow so the cooling effect would be reduced.
Regards
Willy
Fish
I came across the same info regarding the 14-16" barrel theory. Try http://www.frfrogspad.com/qalist.htm as it is a wealth of information. I am not sure about cutting down a longer barrel to 16" as a way to increase accuracy. My thought is that if a 16" barrel was more accurate then manufacturers, especially the after market ones, would be offering only short barrels.
The fact that we can purchase longer barrels seems to indicate that there is some advantage to longer barrels, even in rimfire calibers. I would admit that it could all be marketing but is 20" was more accurate than the 21" on the Mark II Varmint then Savage would have cone with the shorter barrel to reduce their input cost.
2Bad
Try using ultra super hyper speed ammunition at 100yards and see if that improves your groups.
My FV will shoot one ragged hole at 25yards with winchester T22 but opens to 1" at 50 yards. Now I'm not an expert with this rifle by no means, however I tried Remington sub-sonics and my groups immediately dropped to 0.625" at 50 yards with 4 of 5 touching and one "flyer". My reasoning for this improvement is that standard velocity 22 ammunition (t22s) are slowing through through the trans-sonic flow regime somewhere after 25 yards and the instability of the bullet is causing the groups to open up. The sub-sonics are not affected as they are sub-sonic the whole way and are therefore not affected. The sub-sonics had a drop of 2-3” more than the t22s, which I expected.
If you go to the super high speed ammo then it would stay supersonic all the way out to 100 yards which should improve your groups.
Fluted Barrels
My thought is that it probably does not improve accuracy. The fluting will reduce the stiffness of the barrel in the planes of the flutes hindering accuracy but does reduce its weight which should improve accuracy of the barrel. Which effect is more pronounced would depend on a lot of factors but for us mortal it would probably not mean too much. The fluting would increase the surface area of the barrel so should increase cooling but is would be minimal at best. The disturbance of the shape would most likely create turbulent as opposed to laminar flow so the cooling effect would be reduced.
Regards
Willy
The fatal flaw that comes with 22 rimfire fodder is that intrinsically, neither the cartridges nor the barrels are extremely precise in the grand scheme of things. The fact of the matter is that a .30 caliber centerfire barrel will be built more precisely than a .22 barrel, and similarly, the charge in a rifle cartridge can be set with higher precision than in a rimfire cartridge. Therefore, in the end, there really isn't any good reason to take the drop charts out to hundredths of an inch- the rimfire system is not capable of that kind of accuracy. Not that that point takes away from how much fun they are to shoot 
FWIW, I've never seen any discernible difference in the long range (200yd) performance of sub-sonic rounds compared to supersonic rounds- some supersonics print itty bitty groups at that range, while subs such as Green Tags make me doubt my sanity for spending so much on such crappy fodder at that range. I think that sonic transition turbulence theory is mostly mumbo jumbo- especially considering again the accuracy limitations of the round- it might hold water in the centerfire world, but even there I think its a stretch.
...just my observations after putting in way to much range time with my BV chasing after these sorts of ideas.
FWIW, I've never seen any discernible difference in the long range (200yd) performance of sub-sonic rounds compared to supersonic rounds- some supersonics print itty bitty groups at that range, while subs such as Green Tags make me doubt my sanity for spending so much on such crappy fodder at that range. I think that sonic transition turbulence theory is mostly mumbo jumbo- especially considering again the accuracy limitations of the round- it might hold water in the centerfire world, but even there I think its a stretch.
...just my observations after putting in way to much range time with my BV chasing after these sorts of ideas.
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Hey Rimfiremac
I agree that some barrels are made better than others. However, generalizing that 22 barrels are less accurate than 30 caliber barrels is a little simplistic. High end match grade 22 barrels are constructed as well as any other barrel irregardless of the caliber.
I think it is more accurate to say that due to the limited range potential of 22lr then the required accuracy of the barrel required to give satisfactory accuracy is generally less. In any case, 200yards is probably beyond the capabilities of the cartridge.
I sincerely doubt that drop tables measured to the 100th of an inch makes any sense in any caliber. The direction of the wind and the direction of twist of the barrel will cause changes greater than 100th of an inch at longer ranges.
The trans-sonic “theory” is not mumbo-jumbo but a proven fact. The position of the center of pressure on the bullet moves between the sub and super-sonic flow regime and causes the bullets dynamic balance to change. This upset causes the bullets point of impact to be slightly unpredictable. I have run into is more often shooting a black powder Veterlli (spelling?) rifle at 100 yards. I have to be careful selecting my powder charge for a given temperature or else I start supersonic and go sub-sonic before the target which opens up the group significantly. Cut out 5 to 10 grains of powder and the group goes back to what I expect to get from the rifle.
I agree that some barrels are made better than others. However, generalizing that 22 barrels are less accurate than 30 caliber barrels is a little simplistic. High end match grade 22 barrels are constructed as well as any other barrel irregardless of the caliber.
I think it is more accurate to say that due to the limited range potential of 22lr then the required accuracy of the barrel required to give satisfactory accuracy is generally less. In any case, 200yards is probably beyond the capabilities of the cartridge.
I sincerely doubt that drop tables measured to the 100th of an inch makes any sense in any caliber. The direction of the wind and the direction of twist of the barrel will cause changes greater than 100th of an inch at longer ranges.
The trans-sonic “theory” is not mumbo-jumbo but a proven fact. The position of the center of pressure on the bullet moves between the sub and super-sonic flow regime and causes the bullets dynamic balance to change. This upset causes the bullets point of impact to be slightly unpredictable. I have run into is more often shooting a black powder Veterlli (spelling?) rifle at 100 yards. I have to be careful selecting my powder charge for a given temperature or else I start supersonic and go sub-sonic before the target which opens up the group significantly. Cut out 5 to 10 grains of powder and the group goes back to what I expect to get from the rifle.
Then allow me to introduce myself. The old MKII I used to have was, with it's very favorite ammo, just barely minute-o-rabbit out to around 50 meters. Though, in fairness, it was pretty consistent -- it'd run about 2 1/2 to 3 inches at 50 meters with pretty much anything.
I switched to CZ/BRNO's, and have been happy ever since.
YMMV.
Best not let Eagleye see this thread, he's shot successfully at the 200yd line with his rimfires. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263008&highlight=200m
The difficulty with achieving maximum accuracy with a rimfire is that you have to tune the rifle to the round, whereas it's the opposite in all other shooting.
I've had a tonne of fun doing some 200m+ plinking with my rimfires and would have no problem going for a gopher at 150.
Cheers,
Grant
I remember that thread.....
.......the rifle/scope pics are still MIA.................Could very well be the case (pardon the pun)...
I have the same problem but my gun is brand new. No reason they shouldn't be ejecting properly out of a new gun. I feel like I really have to slam the blot back to make it eject and even then it's not reliable.
Yup. Sounds about right. When things start to get worse, that'll work for a couple of times and then the case is in for good. Then out comes the cleaning rod to tap out the case and then clean the chamber.
My rifle was like that from the day it was new. I don't have any more than a thousand rounds down the tube in total so by .22RF standards it's near new.
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
Call or email Savage if you are having a problem with extraction. I did, they just sent me a new extractor and spring. I do belive I recieved the new parts in 2 days after making the call.
http://www.savagearms.com/contact.htm
Cheers!
http://www.savagearms.com/contact.htm
Cheers!
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
There are not alot of after market parts for a MKII. I don't really think there is a need, IMO.
Sharp Shooter Supply (add the w's and a .com) has a good selection of stocks (that they make), but for everything else...... what you got is what there is.....
The Heavy barrel that comes OEM from Savage is good to very good (as far a quality goes). It is actually made by a well known barrel maker (dammned if I can remember the name right now). IMHO it would be like taking an aftermarker GM barrel off of your 10/22 and installing a BC barrel..... still good (ish), but is it any better.... I doubt it.
The trigger group can be modified to produce a lighter trigger, trim the spring that is the trigger adjustment (read your manual), but not more than 1/2 coil at a time. Cut, re-assemble, try..... etc, till you have what you want. The big advantage to this is that you can always make it heavier after modification.
Other than those 3 things the only improvement you can make is optics...... The sky is the limit with optics!
I am sure if you had enough money you could find someone to make you a fitted and tunned Savage MKII, or to make you the parts required..... But they are not "readily available" on the market right now.
Cheers!
Sharp Shooter Supply (add the w's and a .com) has a good selection of stocks (that they make), but for everything else...... what you got is what there is.....
The Heavy barrel that comes OEM from Savage is good to very good (as far a quality goes). It is actually made by a well known barrel maker (dammned if I can remember the name right now). IMHO it would be like taking an aftermarker GM barrel off of your 10/22 and installing a BC barrel..... still good (ish), but is it any better.... I doubt it.
The trigger group can be modified to produce a lighter trigger, trim the spring that is the trigger adjustment (read your manual), but not more than 1/2 coil at a time. Cut, re-assemble, try..... etc, till you have what you want. The big advantage to this is that you can always make it heavier after modification.
Other than those 3 things the only improvement you can make is optics...... The sky is the limit with optics!
I am sure if you had enough money you could find someone to make you a fitted and tunned Savage MKII, or to make you the parts required..... But they are not "readily available" on the market right now.
Cheers!
