how can i improve my grouping?
- Thread starter aaronfisher
- Start date
...using what rifle, load, barrel? Win 1886 may be right. After all, Weatherby only guarantees 1.5" groups on their $2000 hunting rifles. Good enough for their intended purpose.
In a perfect world, I would suggest getting really good with a much smaller cartridge first. The fact is, a heavy cartridge like the 300WM is a difficult cartridge to shoot accurately in a light gun, even with a very experienced precision shooter. Part of this grouping issue may be you. Prove you can be a better shooter with something that does not kick the crap out of you first.
In a perfect world, I would suggest getting really good with a much smaller cartridge first. The fact is, a heavy cartridge like the 300WM is a difficult cartridge to shoot accurately in a light gun, even with a very experienced precision shooter. Part of this grouping issue may be you. Prove you can be a better shooter with something that does not kick the crap out of you first.
I wouldnt say that just yet. There are some things you can try like, seating depth, dif.powders primers bullets, neck tuning. I know they say tuning is for tight neck or bench but it will get your velocity spread down which means consitancy in your rounds. Also try a steadier rest. The trick here is "Same thing all the time every time." Another thing would be to find out what rate of twist you have in your rifle and tune your round from there. I belive that is was Bob Pease or maybe M.L. McPhrearson that said " the best bullet your rifle will shoot is the heavist grain that your rate of twist will stabalize."he more you shoot the better you become and the more you know what to feed your rifle. They all have different tast.
3 round groups don't really tell you much about either the rifle or the shooter. 5 Rounds groups tell a lot more. After 5 rounds everything is hotter!
If you are shooting 1.2 to 2.5" groups you are pretty well at the edge of "Hunting rifle" capability. Try shooting a group at 300 or 400m and tell us if you are stil maintaining that 1min group!
Scott
If you are shooting 1.2 to 2.5" groups you are pretty well at the edge of "Hunting rifle" capability. Try shooting a group at 300 or 400m and tell us if you are stil maintaining that 1min group!
Scott
That is already a very good result. Anything you do after this will be small increments of improvement.
Are you handloading? If not, try different brands of ammo and different bullets. Buy several boxes of whatever works best. The ammo they make next year with the same bullet could have a different powder in it it, so stock up with whatever works well.
Are you handloading? If not, try different brands of ammo and different bullets. Buy several boxes of whatever works best. The ammo they make next year with the same bullet could have a different powder in it it, so stock up with whatever works well.
The 1.5" part is fine, but the 2.5" probably indicates a shooter, rest, trigger, load related issue.
Shooting consistent sub MOA groups with a powerful lite hunting rifle is not a real simple task. Expect to put in lots of rounds down range in practice.
FWIW I have been able to get most factory 300 Win rifles down to the 1.50-2.0 inch range at 200 yds.
Though it really depends on the luck of the draw where it comes to factory rifles.
Shooting consistent sub MOA groups with a powerful lite hunting rifle is not a real simple task. Expect to put in lots of rounds down range in practice.
FWIW I have been able to get most factory 300 Win rifles down to the 1.50-2.0 inch range at 200 yds.
Though it really depends on the luck of the draw where it comes to factory rifles.
knockturnal
Regular
- Location
- Right behind you!
Bed your rifle, Tune the trigger , work up your loads and practice practice practice!!
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
One last thing to add, what mag of scope are you using for your 200yds shooting?
You can't hit what you can't see.
If the optics only allow you to see within 1/2" at 200yds, shooting teeny tiny groups will be more a function of luck and guesswork then aimed fire.
Big reason accuracy shooters use hubble telescopes to aim with.
Jerry
You can't hit what you can't see.
If the optics only allow you to see within 1/2" at 200yds, shooting teeny tiny groups will be more a function of luck and guesswork then aimed fire.
Big reason accuracy shooters use hubble telescopes to aim with.
Jerry
1:07
Arraon, hope you don't mind me asking a related question.
Is it possible to have too much scope, Or is this the most stupid question?
The reason I ask is last time at the range I was shooting 100 yards I was trying my new 4200 AO on 32 x magnification. I found my groups opened up from when I had been previously shooting the same gun with another 16x 4200 AO scope. For my last couple of groups I dialled the scope back to 16x and my groups reduced.
I'm sure this is more my lack of good technique, but felt that the larger magnification was not helping as I seemed to be following the wobble around the target.
Does any of that even make sense?
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
I've heard of people complaining about having too much scope magnification for a given range or lighting/mirage condition, but I have never encountered this situation myself.
If a high scope magnification lets you see your wobble (it doesn't make the wobble, but it does show it), this *might* interfere with you releasing a good shot. Then again, if you accept the wobble and try to do your best, this can actually help you to subconsciously release your shots at just about the perfect time the majority of times.
One thing that can make groups larger is if you have not dialled out parallax for the range you are shooting at.
BTW, it is remarkable how accurately a person's eye can resolve an aiming problem. Hunter Benchrest is fired at 100y with 6X scopes, and they are capable of remarkable results. Iron sighted target rifle is fired from 20y-1000y, and a reasonably experienced shooter who is seeing well can usually resolve (and correctly call) his aim to within a half minute of angle. And F-Class shooters using coarse, easy-to-see reticles (though most seem to use the finest they can get) are able to very accurately aim their shots.
If a high scope magnification lets you see your wobble (it doesn't make the wobble, but it does show it), this *might* interfere with you releasing a good shot. Then again, if you accept the wobble and try to do your best, this can actually help you to subconsciously release your shots at just about the perfect time the majority of times.
One thing that can make groups larger is if you have not dialled out parallax for the range you are shooting at.
BTW, it is remarkable how accurately a person's eye can resolve an aiming problem. Hunter Benchrest is fired at 100y with 6X scopes, and they are capable of remarkable results. Iron sighted target rifle is fired from 20y-1000y, and a reasonably experienced shooter who is seeing well can usually resolve (and correctly call) his aim to within a half minute of angle. And F-Class shooters using coarse, easy-to-see reticles (though most seem to use the finest they can get) are able to very accurately aim their shots.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
Aaron, to your original question ("how can I improve my grouping with my .300?"). There are two parts to this question - you, and your rifle.
To find out how well *you* are shooting, and perhaps to improve it, you should find the most accurate, easiest-to-shoot rifle that you can. A known-good .223 or 6BR F-Class rifle, or a 6PPC benchrest rifle, fit the bill better than a .308 F-Class rifle, which fits the bill better than a .338 magnum target rifle, which fits the bill better than pretty much any factory rifle. With such a rifle (accurate and easy to shoot), go out and see how well you are presently able to consistently shoot. From this you will learn how good your aiming, trigger squeeze, mental control, wind reading etc all are, and you'll learn (for example) "I can always count on shooting 1.2 inch 5-shot groups at 200 yards" (or whatever). If you want to learn how to shoot better, use a super-accurate rifle to figure out how to do better. It is virtually impossible (as in, it takes *years*) to improve your shooting with a rifle that is less accurate than you are - don't waste your time this way, if you can possibly help it!
To find out how well *your* .300 mag is shooting, it needs to be fired by a shooter who is at least a good a shooter as the rifle is. That could be you (if you know how well you are able to shoot), or it could be another person. But whomever it is, it is important to know that a wide shot is the *rifle*'s fault and not the shooter's, otherwise you can't really pursue and fix the fault.
To find out how well *you* are shooting, and perhaps to improve it, you should find the most accurate, easiest-to-shoot rifle that you can. A known-good .223 or 6BR F-Class rifle, or a 6PPC benchrest rifle, fit the bill better than a .308 F-Class rifle, which fits the bill better than a .338 magnum target rifle, which fits the bill better than pretty much any factory rifle. With such a rifle (accurate and easy to shoot), go out and see how well you are presently able to consistently shoot. From this you will learn how good your aiming, trigger squeeze, mental control, wind reading etc all are, and you'll learn (for example) "I can always count on shooting 1.2 inch 5-shot groups at 200 yards" (or whatever). If you want to learn how to shoot better, use a super-accurate rifle to figure out how to do better. It is virtually impossible (as in, it takes *years*) to improve your shooting with a rifle that is less accurate than you are - don't waste your time this way, if you can possibly help it!
To find out how well *your* .300 mag is shooting, it needs to be fired by a shooter who is at least a good a shooter as the rifle is. That could be you (if you know how well you are able to shoot), or it could be another person. But whomever it is, it is important to know that a wide shot is the *rifle*'s fault and not the shooter's, otherwise you can't really pursue and fix the fault.
