Very Frustrated Sighting in Rifle Please Help **Updated with pic**

04rubicon

04rubicon

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I had a frustrating day at the pit yesterday. I was sighting in my new savage 99 in .308 that I picked up on a trade. It wears a fixed 4x banner. (Please don't tell me this scope is junk or that I should buy a Swarovski etc, its what came with the gun and I can't afford a new scope). I had the scope mounted and bore sighted by a guy with a small gunsmith shop in his home. I figured I'd be on paper at 100 yards. I took two shots at 25 yards to foul the bbl and to see if I was on paper. I was dead centre but 3-4" high. At 50 yards I was dead centre 2" high. So far so good I was very happy. At 100 yards I couldn't hit the 2'x4' piece of plywood the target was stapled to let alone the piece of paper the target was printed on stand I tired 12 times. I was getting very frustrated and took one last shot at a milk jug from 75 yards and hit it. I was shooting from a bench and has the bbl resting on a wooden rest I made. I was using Winchester Super X 180gr. Can anyone please offer some help, I have zero confidence in the rifle and scope and maybe less in my shooting ability, not a good place to be a few weeks before deer season.
 
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Don't know if it would account for not hitting a 2'x4' target board, but you should have the fore-end of the rifle, not the barrel, on the rest.
 
04rubicon said:
I was shooting from a bench and has the bbl resting on a wooden rest I made.
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Was the barrel touching the wooden rest or was the forward handguard? You should never put the barrel directly on something when shooting ever, it will throw off harmonics and change point of impact inbetween shots.

Also when sighting in you should use a soft bag of some sort, a rolled up towl or a sleeping bag that allows the rifle to recoil and follow through consistently.
 
if you can shoot good group at 50 i would say its your fault no gun shoot 1 inch at 50 and then 2 feet off target at 100. take your time, squezz your triger , breathing, etc
 
I think you were shooting way over the 100 yard target...

To start with you want it shooting low at 25 yards... about an inch low... then use a large target at 100 yards.
 
This may sound silly, but check your scope mounts/base as well. As much as I hate to admit it, a couple weeks ago I went out to sight in a rifle that I had put a new scope on the last time I was home. I shot okay at 25 and 50. then I tried 100 and didn't touch the target. Then it wouldn't hit at 50 anymore. I was a LITTLE frustrated. Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) Klunk had stopped by. He wandered over and wiggled the end of my scope. I had put the new scope on but hadn't tightened it up. Talk about feeling sheepish. Tightened up the scope and it's now ready for deer season.
 
***Tight groups will not be easy with a 4x power scope at 100 yards, I have the exact same scope, don't expect to be shooting golf balls at 100yards.

Shoot 3 shots at 50 yards, shoot a few groups like this until you can get your groups around 1inch or under. You now know that your gun is decent and sighted in for the most part.

Now at 100 yards your groups will be less than 3inches. Shoot a few groups at 100 yards to tighten things up.

Either way, you will need to spend money on a few boxes of ammo, there is no way around it.
 
04rubicon said:
25 yards to foul the bbl and to see if I was on paper. I was dead centre but 3-4" high. At 50 yards I was dead centre 2" high. So far so good
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No. No good. Imagine the trajectory. Bullet starts 1.5" low, up 4 inches at 25 yards :eek:. Imagine the angle. 2" at 50, no. Doesn't make sense. Very Lee Harvey Oswald.

edit:
If you have Java working:
http://www.gunsim.com/?r=25&z=740
(3.5" high at 25)
http://www.gunsim.com/?r=50&z=740
(9" high at 50)

Sounds like the scope/mount. Unless when you say 3-4" you actually do mean 3/4"
 
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Well 04, You haven't gained a thing by the answers you got! 3/4 inch high at 25, 2" high at 50, it should be at the very most, 4 nches high at 100.
You said for no one to say the scope was no good, but that is exactly what I have to say. You will have checked its mounting, so that leaves the internal parts.
I have had a scope that had two points of impact. Sometimes it would be dead on, good group at 100 yards, then the next 1, or more, would be 16" low. After that it would go back to dead on.
I also bought an excellent rifle at a very low price because the owner was convinced the rifle was junk! Hence, a great buy. It had a Banner scope that was loose somewhere inside and would group them all over the place. Changed the scope, accurate rifle.
Forget about all the info you were given about resting the barel on wood, and various other similar things. Those things are for changeing the group, maybe 2" at 100 yards, not two feet.
 
Mount Sweetness said:
***Tight groups will not be easy with a 4x power scope at 100 yards, I have the exact same scope, don't expect to be shooting golf balls at 100yards.
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I know many seasoned shooters who can shoot very good groups at 100 yards with aperture sights, let alone a 4X scope. The 4X is not much of a handicap in shooting at any normal hunting distance, trust me! Eagleye.
 
H4831 said:
Forget about all the info you were given about resting the barel on wood, and various other similar things. Those things are for changeing the group, maybe 2" at 100 yards, not two feet.
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I disagree as I have watched many guys rest thier bbls on fence posts and completely miss a ground hog at 50 yards. Depending on the bbl the change in harmonics could be a 2 foot poi change.
Regards
 
H4831 said:
Well 04, You haven't gained a thing by the answers you got! 3/4 inch high at 25, 2" high at 50, it should be at the very most, 4 nches high at 100.
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He said: I took two shots at 25 yards to foul the bbl and to see if I was on paper. I was dead centre but 3-4" high. At 50 yards I was dead centre 2" high...

3 - 4 inches high at 25 yards... That is with a scope mounted about 1.5 inches above the bore... In my world that would put you considerably over the target at 100 yards... all day long...

2 inches high at 50 does not translate to 4 inches high at 100 because of the off set of the sights... if you move the adjustments 2 inches at 50 yards that does translate to 4 inches of adjustment at 100 yards.,
 
Before you swap to much around (though that may become necessary) go back to the range and get your POI at 25 yds about an inch low. Then go back to 100, staple 4 white 8.5 X 11 sheets of paper to the target board forming a squareish arrangement. Draw a 1" circle in the middle and you should be on paper.
 
first thing is to get some copper solvent and clean the barrel of all copper fouweling most guys never do this and it is the root of many poeples problems the barrel may look clean and shinny but you can bet on a gun like a 99 it will be full of copper .clean it until the patches no longer come out green .Then shot three shots at 25 yards to get a group when you have a group you can do some adjusting move the group to were you want the bullets to hit .then try another group at 50 or 75 yards keep working with a group of three shots and remember to let the gun cool down .when you have a three shot group that is with in a three inch circle you can start to fine tune your gun at 100 yards .make sure every thing is tight and donot rest the metal of the barrel on any hard object get a sand bag and keep in under the wood forend good luck this should work for you DUTCH
 
check your mounts. If all is good, get a big peice of paper and mount your target in the centre of it. that should show you your POI. Shoot and adjust to centre point of aim. See if it holds. if not, hit the EE and find a GOOD used scope and try again.
 
guntech said:
He said: I took two shots at 25 yards to foul the bbl and to see if I was on paper. I was dead centre but 3-4" high. At 50 yards I was dead centre 2" high...

3 - 4 inches high at 25 yards... That is with a scope mounted about 1.5 inches above the bore... In my world that would put you considerably over the target at 100 yards... all day long...

2 inches high at 50 does not translate to 4 inches high at 100 because of the off set of the sights... if you move the adjustments 2 inches at 50 yards that does translate to 4 inches of adjustment at 100 yards.,
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I took it to mean 3/4" (three quarters inch) high at 25 and 2" high at 50, which would be about right.
Regardless, my theory is the scope is loose inside and moving around.
 
The Banner scope can be a good scope. There is nothing wrong with a 4x for shooting good hunting groups at 100 yards. As already pointed out, you are shooting very high at 100 yards with the points of impact you have described. Then, you probably compounded the problem by resting the barrel on your wood rest; this would add even more height to the point of impact.
Cleaning the barrel is all good to reduce the size of the group, but will not affect the height of the point of impact.
If you are on at 50, then lower the point of impact to about an inch high, and then try it again at 100, using the same sort of rest as you did at 50.
good luck.
 
doubleman said:
I disagree as I have watched many guys rest thier bbls on fence posts and completely miss a ground hog at 50 yards. Depending on the bbl the change in harmonics could be a 2 foot poi change.
Regards
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Hey, you know what? I happen to have shot a few times in my life, also, and have tried such things.
Absolutely no way could poi be change 2 feet by resting the barrel on wood, or on the front stock.
So you missed a ground hog at fifty yards. This does not exactly give you proof that resting the barrel on wood was the cause!!!
Resting the barrel on wood, or not, might change the poi about 2", or under worst cases MAYBE as much as 4". But certainly not two feet.
 
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