150gn vs. 180gn - 303 Brit

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youngyoda

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Just curious what other reloaders for this caliber are using. I'm scheduled to go on a moose hunt next friday. Up untill now I've been loading for blacktail deer using a 150gn Speer JSP, 43.1gn(RX15), CCI LR, Fed Brass. I don't know what the speed's are but they are accurate 1" @100yrd. I've been working on a 180gn Sierra JSP load for the last two weeks thinking that I would need a larger bullet to take down these beasts. I have been able to get good accuracy with 41.0gn(Rx15) same primer and brass as before but I'm worried the velocity might not be there.

The question would have to be what would you recommend using. The lighter faster bullet or the slower heavyer bullet?

I know in advance that the 303 would not be the best caliber to be taking moose hunting however that is all the funds will allow for this year.

Thanks
Yoda
 
Those 180 grain Sierras are a very "hard" bullet, in my experience. I shot a small-ish mule deer at 30 yards with them (using a good bit hotter load of R15 than you are), and got 3 pass-through shots that showed no particular signs of having expanded, and the critter ran off a good ways before it died. I was less than impressed, and vowed never to shoot a critter again with those bullets.

That said, though, an 800lb (or more) Moose is a much bigger/thicker/tougher animal than that little 150lb mule deer was -- so I might expect those 180 Sierras to work fairly well on one of those. I'm not sure though...

For me, for that hunt (and not having the time to go do some load development with a bullet I trusted, like the 174 Hornady RN), I'd be most confident with a box of factory loaded 180 grain Winchester PowerPoint's. I have shot lots of animals with those -- everything from deer to elk and bear -- and they have always performed excellently for me. Never once have I had an animal that was shot cleanly through the vitals survive for more than a few seconds after impact, and the only bullet I ever recovered was from a decent sized bull elk -- bullet had center-punched a rib on both sides, and busted the off-side shoulder and came to rest in the hide. Here's the pics of what it looked like this after that abuse (with a quarter and an un-fired shell for size reference) -- 160-ish grains of retained weight:

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I was thinking of trying the 174's however the BC for the round nose through me off. I didn't think that they would perform as good as the soft points? I would guess they would expand more rapidly seeings as there would be more surface area on initial contact. How where your groupings with the 174's?
 
There is nothing wrong with the .303 for moose. Trainloads of moose have been killed with them over the yrs. I've used the 180gr Speer roundnose bullet for many years with good results on moose,bear,and both mulies and whitetails. Accuracy depends on the propellant and the preferences of the individual rifle.I've always found W760,H414,IMR4350 and IMR 4064 to yield good accuracy with this bullet.
 
BrotherJack is giving good advice. A 303 British is perfect for Moose. I think most 150gr. are designed light for deer. Use a 180gr. RN if you're under about 200 yards, SP if you're that far or slightly further. Reminton and Winchester both make good factory fodder. I've never used Federal so I can't say. If you can't get closer then about 250 yards don't shoot. The cartridge is powerfull enough but most 303's aren't THAT accurate. Remember you won't be calmly shooting from a bench.
 
youngyoda said:
I was thinking of trying the 174's however the BC for the round nose through me off. I didn't think that they would perform as good as the soft points? I would guess they would expand more rapidly seeings as there would be more surface area on initial contact. How where your groupings with the 174's?
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Yeah, the BC of the round nose isn't worth a hoot if you're considering shooting at long-ish range. That's probably the main thing that keeps me from shooting them on a regular basis. I wouldn't worry about the on-game performance, though -- the RN bullets are known to perform beautifully on-game at 303-esque velocities.

Accuracy with a given load (especially in 303's) varies so widely from rifle to rifle, that I don't know that my accuracy results would do you any good -- but the 174's shoot pretty decently in mine. The most accurate loads I've ever used though, are the Sierra handloads and the Winchester PowerPoints (which, again, I HIGHLY recommend the Winchester PP's).

One other thing to think about, is if you've never tried .308 bullets in your rifle, and you've got a little time to play with loads before you go, you might try something like a.308 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and see what you get. Many (if not most) 303's will produce enough accuracy with a.308 diameter bullets to hit a moose inside the 250 yard mark, and a 180 BT at 303-esque velocity would work splendidly. I've switched to 180 grain .308 bullets for all my handloads in 303 British. It's not as accurate as .311/.312 bullets, but 2-ish inches at 100 yards vs 1.25-ish inches at 100 yards -- either one is close enough for government work in a hunting rifle. :)
 
I will track down some of those PowerPoints. I have the 180 sierra's marking paper in the 1.25" range but I didn't want to go any higher than 41.5gn (Rx15) as my cases started to show some interesting expansion(leaning). Actually the accuracy was better at 41.0gn's. I might load up another batch in 0.1gn increments from 41.0-41.5 and see how that goes. Thanks for all the advice.

The gun is actually a Parker-Hale sporter in the 303 with an enfield action. I think I need a #3 bolt face as I can almost fully close the bolt with one turn out on the #2 face that is on the gun. If I could only track on down in time... not likely.
 
youngyoda said:
Just curious what other reloaders for this caliber are using. I'm scheduled to go on a moose hunt next friday. Up untill now I've been loading for blacktail deer using a 150gn Speer JSP, 43.1gn(RX15), CCI LR, Fed Brass. I don't know what the speed's are but they are accurate 1" @100yrd. I've been working on a 180gn Sierra JSP load for the last two weeks thinking that I would need a larger bullet to take down these beasts. I have been able to get good accuracy with 41.0gn(Rx15) same primer and brass as before but I'm worried the velocity might not be there.

The question would have to be what would you recommend using. The lighter faster bullet or the slower heavyer bullet?

I know in advance that the 303 would not be the best caliber to be taking moose hunting however that is all the funds will allow for this year.

Thanks
Yoda
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This is the age old question. I dumped the Sierra SPT 180 grain bullets for the Barnes TSX 150's because I didn't like the way the 180's mushroomed (they didn't). Hornady interlock 150 grain SPT's are the next bullet I'm going to try because I think they may be more accurate in my old Enfield, they're .312 diameter.

I personally use 38.5 grains of H380, which gives me about 1900fps~ but I'm going to try H335 next.

I actually left a parker-hale .303 sporter up in Ft. St. John, I wonder what # bolt head it had.
 
I shoot the Sierra 180 Spitzers all the time, and have shot deer and moose with great success. However, I am shooting them in a P14, not a Lee Enfield, so my charge of RL 15 is considerably higher than I would put through the LE type action. Needless to say, I have had no failures to expand, even in deer. I also have a 303 Epps built on a P14 action, and that is just a bit more velocity yet. The Sierra is without a doubt the most accurate 180 grain bullet I have tried, and will shoot 3 into an inch with both these rifles. Other accurate bullets I use are Steve Redgwell's 200 Grain Mark 9 bullet, and Hornady's 150 Spitzer interlock. A 303 British in a good, strong, front locking action like the P14 is ballistically like a 308 Winchester with a rim. Regards, Eagleye.
 
"...the 303 would not be the best caliber..." Hard to beat it for moose. Know a guy who has been using a bubba'd No. 4, for eons. He says, "It works, why buy another rifle?" (Of course, we all said it was because his wife wouldn't let him.) His freezer is full, just the same.
Slug the barrel. The Sierra 180 is .311" diameter. Won't shoot well out of a .314" barrel.
 
I've got a couple of 303's and generally speaking I use 150's for black bears and the like and use 180's for moose. In a pinch, I have no doubt that the 150s would kill a moose clearnly at closer ranges, but if I actually go hunting specifically for moose, it's with the 180's.

Chise - your 1900 fps load seems really slow! Maybe that's why those 180's weren't mushrooming. I just sighted in and chronied a No4 that was done up to look like a J/C, and I was getting 2400+ fps with surplus 174gr FMJ and exactly the same with my 180gr handloads, and that's with an 18.5" J/C length barrel.
 
chise said:
This is the age old question. I dumped the Sierra SPT 180 grain bullets for the Barnes TSX 150's because I didn't like the way the 180's mushroomed (they didn't).
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Oh, hey, I forgot about those new Barnes's. Yeah, those would be great on moose! And yep, that's the exact same problem I had with the Sierra 180's.
 
I think you guys are absolutely right about the 180 Sierra's not mushrooming properly at 1900fps~ This was before I was using dental floss on my rim to take away the headspace. My new batch is going to be about 2150FPS and I still have another 70 Sierra's to test with. If I like the accuracy at 200 (my no.I mk.III is scoped) I'll probably stick with that load. I do plan on working up two loads with Barnes TSX's and Hornady SP IL 150's and H335 in my JC no.5 and no.1 mk.III lithgow.

Also I had an offer on my Lithgow on Saturday, someone wanted to give me 175.00 for it if I took off the scope. It's sporterized and has a worn throat. Would I be ripping the dude off? I paid $150.00 for it.
 
chise said:
I think you guys are absolutely right about the 180 Sierra's not mushrooming properly at 1900fps~ This was before I was using dental floss on my rim to take away the headspace. My new batch is going to be about 2150FPS and I still have another 70 Sierra's to test with. If I like the accuracy at 200 (my no.I mk.III is scoped) I'll probably stick with that load. I do plan on working up two loads with Barnes TSX's and Hornady SP IL 150's and H335 in my JC no.5 and no.1 mk.III lithgow.

Also I had an offer on my Lithgow on Saturday, someone wanted to give me 175.00 for it if I took off the scope. It's sporterized and has a worn throat. Would I be ripping the dude off? I paid $150.00 for it.
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If he's offering $175, that's not a "rip-off" price, but more than most of us would pay. $125 would probably be more appropriate, if the guy was savvy on sportered LE prices...
 
I echo fine results with the Winchester factory 180 shells. I have had good luck over the years with all Winchester ammunition using the Power Point which at times I have found iritating because I like using Noslers! I think that Steve's 200 grainer would be ideal but still have not tried it as yet. Reloader 15 is also a favorite powder. Be sure that the case stretching is not from resizing. Neck sizing or partial resizing has worked well for me. I have saw many moose taken with the .303 in Newfoundland and it is very dependable as long as shots are well placed and ranges are not too extended.

Enjoy the moose meat!
 
The two best powders I have found for the 303 is RL 15 & Varget with 150gr Hornadys 311" close second 174gr Sierra Match Kings. If you hit a moose behind shoulder in boiler room he will be going to your frezzer.
manitou
 
Thanks agian for all the info guys. I think I'm going to try the o-ring trick on the next trip to the range. See if the headspace is giving me accuracy/case issues. It almost seem as though the FL die's are creating somewhat of a strange line near the head, and no it's not inciepient head(I cut one open). I don't have a neck sizing die however so the only way I can reload is FL right now. All of my brass has only been through two fires so far. Just tumbled it all last night.
 
You can use dental floss as well, I do. There's also a trick to neck sizing with a FL die, it can be done. Here's how I do it:

1)Loosen the top so you can move the decapping rod, slide that thing down as far as you can.
2)Take a candle (don't use this if you got powder around) or a sharpie marker and draw a line down the side of your brass then lube it. Using a lit candle to blacken the side of the brass works better, but be careful, do this in the bathroom or something.
3)Start with your die backed out as far as possible so that it just pops out the primer but doesn't size anything. Work it down in increments so that the candle black stuff or sharpie marker is wearing off at the neck but nowhere else.

Or you could spend $33.00 for a neck sizing die. You'll get more than 2-3 reloads this way, more like 5-6 if you neck size. Accuracy improves slightly, and I find you can put more propellant into the case without worrying about it separating.
 
"...only way I can reload is FL..." You can set up an FL die to neck size, but you don't have time if you plan on going hunting next week. You still have to sight in.
'O' rings tell you nothing about headspace. Did you have the headspace checked with proper guages?
 
sunray said:
"...only way I can reload is FL..." You can set up an FL die to neck size, but you don't have time if you plan on going hunting next week. You still have to sight in.
'O' rings tell you nothing about headspace. Did you have the headspace checked with proper guages?
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Yeah definately, there's not enough time to sight in. I'd just buy some WW super SPT's and be done with it for now.
 
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