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sportsman450

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New to guns and new to hunting ........... I would like to buy a shotgun thinking about a 410 . I will be hunting rabbitts and grouse maybe ducks , I will be in moose country and rumour has it that coyotes are slowly invading the territory , there is also the remote chance of black bear in the area . I should get a 12 gauge but I also have a 13 year old son who likes to pull the trigger . Also what are chokes all about ???? I really need a "Shotguns for Idiots " course if anybody could help it would be great .
 
I'd consider a 20 gauge for that kind of game. Its also a good starter shotgun, I got a 20 gauge as my first firearm, still have it. What chokes do is manipulate the spread of the shot. Cylinder bore will produce the largest patterns while full choke (there are tighter) will produce tighter patterns. I think there are about 8 different chokes in between cylinder and full. If you have time read through this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#Pattern_and_choke

Good crash course on shotguns.
 
Go with the 20 gauge. .410 is a little small for waterfowl or coyotes. Also, for a gun to pack in bear country .410 is a little small. Not to mention shells cost more and are harder to find.
 
I would strongly consider a 20 gauge for your intended uses. Adequate for deer/coyote/bear with slugs. Fine for ducks and grouse. Relatively low recoil, and inexpensive shells. Look at a mossberg 500 or remington express to start. See how they fit, and if you want something nicer.
 
I just spent the week-end grouse and rabbit hunting in moose country with the remote chance of coyotes and bears. For grouse and rabbit I hunt with a 410. The shells are not particularly expensive ($16 for 25) and it is a pleasant experience. Little recoil, not really loud and your bird isn't riddled. For everything else though, ,get a 12 ga with a series of screw in chokes. Why only buy one gun. It's similar to buying one screwdriver expecting to be able to fix everything with it.
 
Thanks for the info , if the recoil with the 12 and 7/8 oz load has little recoil then that is what I would go with for my son and then for myself I can carry what ever load I want .

What I am trying to do is find a combination with as little recoil as possible so my son will not be afraid to pull the trigger or get hurt . This is why I was leaning toward the 410 I figured it had the least recoil but if I can find a comparable combination (gun and low recoil shells ) then I would certainly go for that then I will not be limited .

I appreciate any and all info
 
Shooting without hitting is no fun and hitting is easier with a 20 than with a .410. Give the kid a chance and get him a 20, a .410 is the expert's gun. The 12 bore loaded with slugs is the best choice for bears, but a 20 ga slug is sufficient.

If you shoot at a large paper target with a load of bird shot, the paper will be perforated with dozens of holes from the pellets passing through it. The holes in the paper mark the pattern, and the diameter of the pattern at any given range can be controlled with the choice of appropriate choke. Think of chokes the way you think of an adjustable the nozzle on a garden hose. The greater the constriction of the nozzle, the farther the water will travel from the nozzle, the less the constriction the wider the spray, but the shorter the distance it will travel. So it is with shotgun chokes. Different chokes offer different degrees of constriction. When the pellets leave the muzzle of the shotgun, the pattern is very tight because it is the same size as the muzzle of the gun barrel. But the pattern becomes cone shaped as it moves down range and grows in diameter. A very wide pattern from a cylinder or open choke makes hitting easy, but because the wide pattern doesn't last very long so the range is short.

A cylinder choke is an open choke with no constriction at the barrel. This choke has often proven to produce the best accuracy for shotgun slugs, although they can be safely used through most chokes, and some prefer an open choke for large diameter buckshot which does not respond to choke constriction in the way small diameter birdshot does.

The modified choke has a moderate amount of constriction, so the range is extended beyond what is possible with the open choke. It will be more difficult to hit very close targets with the modified choke because the pellets do not spread as soon as from an open, so greater range is attained. The modified choke is a very useful choice for the gunner who primarily uses birdshot.

The full choke offers the greatest range due to its greatest degree of constriction at the muzzle. This is the choke most often chosen by waterfowlers, although some have found that modified chokes give better performance with steel shot.

Many of today's shotguns come with a adjustable or replacement chokes which gives you the opportunity to test your ammunition with each choke to determine which best suits your needs.
 
With reduced recoil slugs, buck and the like, I would recommend a 12 ga. You can get one gun, but vary your shells to suit the shooter. You won't outgrow a 12. I know 2 family members who started with 20's then switched to 12's later on, especially when they started duck hunting.
 
LOts of good advice here. I would say 12gauge too, but, giving the notion that your primary game targets are grouse and rabbit, a 20 ga would be perfect. Loaded with slugs, it makes good bear peacemaker too. Hmmm decisions, decisions....
 
The gun I purchase will be used primarily for birds and rabbitt . In the event I am approached by an unfriendly bull moose , black bear or a pack of coyotes while in the woods I want a gun with me that is cappable of stopping them if need be . My primary big game rifle is a Savage 30-06 and I have a Savage 22 for plinking and small game , but I figure a shotgun would be better than the 22 for small game and if I need to chamber a slug if threatened by a larger animal I can do so , and I have to keep in mind my son is usually with me . I think it will now be the 20 but I may look around for 12 gauge ammo with reduced recoil for him to shoot rabbitts with and keep the slugs to myself . Thanks again for all the info ...........
 
You can not go wrong with a 12 guage. You can hunt Small and Big game. Also the ammo is more common making it less expensive and there is more variation on the strength of the loads.

So, if you want to hunt rabit you would go with a load for that game. If you wanted to hunt deer or bear you can get loads for big game.

12 guage is the most versatile of the shotguns.
 
My first shotgun, at 12 years old, was a steven's single shot 12ga.
I was a skinny little kid, (I'm 23 and still only 145lbs at 6'2") and I shot a ton with that gun. Trap, deer, grouse, ducks, geese, you name it. I'd say a 13 year old boy could deal with shooting a 12gauge allright, and you'll be better off and have more ammo options with a 12ga.
 
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