I am interested in doing some target shooting at 100/200 yds. just for fun. What are some of your achievements ??? I have hunting rifles that shoot 1 1/2" groups. I don't know if it's just me or if it's the rifles that I shoot. I have been told not to expect much better from a hunting rifles. I hunt with a Parker Hale 1200c in 300 Win. Mag. Ruger M77 mk2 308 for a spare and even a old LE #4 mk2 all shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds.
MOA expectations
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That's on par with what to expect.
Weatheryby only guarantees 1.5 MOA on their most expensive rifles.
Hand loading, stock bedding and trigger lightening may tighten these up a bit, but none were intended for quarter minute target shooting.
You can improve your own skill by practicing with rimfire, or at least getting a centerfire with much less recoil. All of these cartridges kick like hell in the guns you mention. This causes flinching, and they are harder to shoot accurately.
Weatheryby only guarantees 1.5 MOA on their most expensive rifles.
Hand loading, stock bedding and trigger lightening may tighten these up a bit, but none were intended for quarter minute target shooting.
You can improve your own skill by practicing with rimfire, or at least getting a centerfire with much less recoil. All of these cartridges kick like hell in the guns you mention. This causes flinching, and they are harder to shoot accurately.
"just for fun" & "300 win mag" nope! Are you looking for a rifle/caliber suggestion? This is unclear. Standard fare savage/remington/tikka should all be easily capable of 1 MOA or less. If you are planning on using one of the rifles listed above, the obvious choice for me would be the Ruger.
1/4 MOA doesn't sound like "Just for fun" it sounds like alot of work to me!
1/4 MOA doesn't sound like "Just for fun" it sounds like alot of work to me!
- Location
- calgary alberta
This is my hunting rifle, a custom 300 win mag.
And this is how it shoots.
For most hunting 1.5 moa seems to be the norm, and at 100 to 200 yards is probably fine, but with that lack of accuracy 1 should not go much beyond the 300 yard range I believe as the risk of not attaining a clean kill is greatly increased.
And this is how it shoots.
For most hunting 1.5 moa seems to be the norm, and at 100 to 200 yards is probably fine, but with that lack of accuracy 1 should not go much beyond the 300 yard range I believe as the risk of not attaining a clean kill is greatly increased.
Maybe I didn't explain enough. I am looking to do some target shooting just for fun. Nothing serious. I just mentioned the guns that I use and their/my moa. I was wondering what was normal for a hunting rifle as well as a average target rifle one would expect. I like older rifles for some reason or other and I was thinking about getting a Carl Gustaf's 6.5 x 55 target rifle to fool around with.
Well - A lot of it depends on you and your shooting skills. The groups you are getting are reasonable for a hunting rifle - I assume you are using a scope.
The Gustaf target rifles typically have iron sights, so you're unlikely to improve matters substantially - especially at the longer distances.
As stated above, getting below MOA usually requires some effort. Picking up an expensive target rifle may not be beneficial in comparison to reloading, and practicing, with your current rifles. Reloading allows you to "tune" your loads to barrel harmonics, and practicing ensures that you arent the limiting factor to accuracy. Using this approach, its possible to get those "huntin irons" down to 1/2 to 3/4 moa at 100 y. Things will open up a bit at 2 - 300 y, perhaps 1 1/2 moa.
The Gustaf target rifles typically have iron sights, so you're unlikely to improve matters substantially - especially at the longer distances.
As stated above, getting below MOA usually requires some effort. Picking up an expensive target rifle may not be beneficial in comparison to reloading, and practicing, with your current rifles. Reloading allows you to "tune" your loads to barrel harmonics, and practicing ensures that you arent the limiting factor to accuracy. Using this approach, its possible to get those "huntin irons" down to 1/2 to 3/4 moa at 100 y. Things will open up a bit at 2 - 300 y, perhaps 1 1/2 moa.
Most hunting rifles seem to be in and around 1.5 MOA out of the box with factory ammo. With practice and some ammo development a smaller group is certainly possible - my unaltered 700 BDL in .270 has shot a 5-shot group of 0.65" for example.
Varmint rifles generally shoot better out of the box and some brands appear more consistent than others ( Savage has a good reputation for out of the box accuracy ) and the same is true for the heavy barrelled sniper/tactical rifles. Accuracy of .5 -.75 MOA is quite doable with these types of firearms. Getting under .5 is, in my opinion, quite difficult -my Kimber tactical, for example, has produced one 5 shot group of .280 but generally I am only able to get half-MOA out of it. I find that this category oif rifle generally shoots better than the owners can.
Milsurp bolt guns ( think Enfield, Mauser etc ) can generally get groups of 2 -3" or so but some do better and many do worse. A lot will depend upon condition and, of course, the nut behind the trigger.
These are just my experiences - many experienced shooters will do better of course but these numbers should give you a reasonable guide upon which to base your expectations. Finally, 5 shot groups are harder to achieve than 3 shot groups so pay attention to what you read as many quote 3 shot groups when making accuracy claims.
Varmint rifles generally shoot better out of the box and some brands appear more consistent than others ( Savage has a good reputation for out of the box accuracy ) and the same is true for the heavy barrelled sniper/tactical rifles. Accuracy of .5 -.75 MOA is quite doable with these types of firearms. Getting under .5 is, in my opinion, quite difficult -my Kimber tactical, for example, has produced one 5 shot group of .280 but generally I am only able to get half-MOA out of it. I find that this category oif rifle generally shoots better than the owners can.
Milsurp bolt guns ( think Enfield, Mauser etc ) can generally get groups of 2 -3" or so but some do better and many do worse. A lot will depend upon condition and, of course, the nut behind the trigger.
These are just my experiences - many experienced shooters will do better of course but these numbers should give you a reasonable guide upon which to base your expectations. Finally, 5 shot groups are harder to achieve than 3 shot groups so pay attention to what you read as many quote 3 shot groups when making accuracy claims.
I have a Rem 700 dm lss which is the same idea as your BDL but looks different. It consistantly shoots at least 3 - 1" (@100 yards) groups and I have had the holes touching using premium factory ammo (Win. Accubond or Ballistic Silver tip). I did bring the trigger pull to three pounds on that one but she has been good right out of the box. I personally would be disapointed if a new mid-range and up gun couldn't produce a group of at least 1 1/2" out of the box at 100 yards. Technology has come a long way.
Buy a heavy barrelled .223 rem and get some trigger time , see if your hunting gun groups shrink.
Personal taste, i'm not happy with anything that shoots over an inch before being cleaned up and modified.
Get reloading and your groups can easily shrink, get more trigger time (.223 is cheap) and keep notes.
M.
Personal taste, i'm not happy with anything that shoots over an inch before being cleaned up and modified.
Get reloading and your groups can easily shrink, get more trigger time (.223 is cheap) and keep notes.
M.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
That is always a very valid question. Being in the Fraser Valley, any chance you can go out to the Mission gun range with someone that has an accurate target rifle and see how you do?
I am sure there a number of people living in the area that lend a hand.
Properly bedded and with handloads suited to the barrel, most barrels can shot MOA or better, even those made way back when. As long as the throat is not worn, the potential for decent accuracy is there.
First thing is to see how well you can shoot, then see what you can do to make your rifles shoot as well...
Eventually, if you get into competition quality rifles, the equipment will almost always outshoot you - that's alot of fun...
Jerry
The #4 Enfield I was shooting the other day after I sighted it in gave me several 1 1/2" groups. Then I shot a quick 10 shot group and it opened up to 4" I refinished the stock and added a cheek rest and a solid no drill scope mount. Looks like a old WW2 Sniper rifle. I have dies for it and will reload it when I use up my batch of factory ammo. I 'll shoot for a 1" MOA I think that would be good for the "Old Girl"
