- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
I did the same thing on a batch of 20 rounds for my .338F...but I didn't know and drove all the way to the pit (30 mins one way)
. The look on my face was priceless when I realized that there would be no shooting that day 
.
This is unbelieveably f-ing irritating
- Thread starter Wally
- Start date
I did the same thing on a batch of 20 rounds for my .338F...but I didn't know and drove all the way to the pit (30 mins one way)
. The look on my face was priceless when I realized that there would be no shooting that day .
I think you are experiencing the same problem that I experienced with my .243 reloads. I then read an article about some isolated incidents where .243 rifles have “blown” up. It said:
“The reason for the blow-ups is the doughnut-effect. This ‘doughnut’ is a thickening of the brass on the inside of the case neck (at the junction of neck and shoulder) which manifests in the form of a raised ring. Sizing cases does not remove the ring. Bullets seated in such cases are a very tight fit at the doughnut. When the cartridge is fired and the case neck expands against the chamber walls, the doughnut ring cannot expand properly to release the bullet and, with top-end loads, the pressure increase can be dramatic enough to blow up the rifle.”
Needless to say, I tested all my used cases and found more than half of them to have the “doughnut”. The test is simple – drop a bullet into the mouth of a fired case and if it falls in, it is fine. If it sticks, it is due to the doughnut.
The article also noted that this doughnut effect is not limited to .243 rifles only and was a constant problem with .30-06 Ackley Improved and has shown up with 9.3x62 rifles too.
I discarded all my old brass and when reloading the new brass, I full length resized, but I backed the die backed off 1/2 turn so not to touch the shoulder.
Some members shot down this theory as a pipe dream, but it seems to have applied in my case and the solution worked for me.
“The reason for the blow-ups is the doughnut-effect. This ‘doughnut’ is a thickening of the brass on the inside of the case neck (at the junction of neck and shoulder) which manifests in the form of a raised ring. Sizing cases does not remove the ring. Bullets seated in such cases are a very tight fit at the doughnut. When the cartridge is fired and the case neck expands against the chamber walls, the doughnut ring cannot expand properly to release the bullet and, with top-end loads, the pressure increase can be dramatic enough to blow up the rifle.”
Needless to say, I tested all my used cases and found more than half of them to have the “doughnut”. The test is simple – drop a bullet into the mouth of a fired case and if it falls in, it is fine. If it sticks, it is due to the doughnut.
The article also noted that this doughnut effect is not limited to .243 rifles only and was a constant problem with .30-06 Ackley Improved and has shown up with 9.3x62 rifles too.
I discarded all my old brass and when reloading the new brass, I full length resized, but I backed the die backed off 1/2 turn so not to touch the shoulder.
Some members shot down this theory as a pipe dream, but it seems to have applied in my case and the solution worked for me.
I appreciate you guys taking the time to reply to my question, I really do; but when you reply without reading the previous posts you end up asking the same questions over and over and over again. I swear to god, in this thread, I have been asked 4 times if my brass was trimmed and at least 3 times if my bullets were hitting the rifling.
I don't mind really except for 3 things.
Replying with questions that have already been asked pretty much just wastes YOUR time.
It fills the thread up so other people are less likely to read the whole thread and, in turn, do the same thing; ask questions that have already been asked.
Makes me roll my eyes and ignore the post, which makes me feel bad because you've taken the time to try to help me out.
The worst is when people ask a question and the answer to that question is in the first line of the OP lol.
I'm sure you're right about that except my stuff is once fired. The unsized OF brass chambers with no resistance. The problem was that my seating die was too low.
That's sucks even more than forgetting your mags lol
Cheers.
I don't mind really except for 3 things.
Replying with questions that have already been asked pretty much just wastes YOUR time.
It fills the thread up so other people are less likely to read the whole thread and, in turn, do the same thing; ask questions that have already been asked.
Makes me roll my eyes and ignore the post, which makes me feel bad because you've taken the time to try to help me out.
The worst is when people ask a question and the answer to that question is in the first line of the OP lol.
Yeah, I was thinking I could lower the FL die too. Could probably be sizing that brass by another .0625"
I'm sure you're right about that except my stuff is once fired. The unsized OF brass chambers with no resistance. The problem was that my seating die was too low.
Yeah. I think i'm gonna have to.
You musta mushed em worse than I didI did the same thing on a batch of 20 rounds for my .338F...but I didn't know and drove all the way to the pit (30 mins one way)
That's sucks even more than forgetting your mags lolThis is an interesting theory. I've never heard it before. I don't think that it's my problem, especially since my brass is once fired but I'll keep that in mind.
Cheers.
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- High River, Alberta
The "doughnut effect" is not going to be an issue with once fired brass - maybe after a half dozen firings though.
I don't do a great deal of loading for cartridges that suffer these types of problems but I suspect that in most cases the brass flow will start to cause seperations before it thickens the necks that badly. Is there even a quick easy way to check neck thickness for the non-benchrest crowd who usually turn or ream the necks anyway? Regular micrometer or calipers don't fit too well.
I don't do a great deal of loading for cartridges that suffer these types of problems but I suspect that in most cases the brass flow will start to cause seperations before it thickens the necks that badly. Is there even a quick easy way to check neck thickness for the non-benchrest crowd who usually turn or ream the necks anyway? Regular micrometer or calipers don't fit too well.
seat a bullet in the case measure the neck, subtract bullet diameter then divide remainder by 2= neck thickness. or buy a ball micrometer.
This is how I deliberatly make my F Class and target rifle brass. It measn zero headspace, or even a bit tighter. This is good.
But, if you are hunting, run every round through the magazine and chamber, to make sure they all fit. This is good practice with all reloaded hunting ammo, anyway.
If a bullet is too long for magazine or chamber, your workshop is the place to find it, not the field.
Read below.
But, if you are hunting, run every round through the magazine and chamber, to make sure they all fit. This is good practice with all reloaded hunting ammo, anyway.
If a bullet is too long for magazine or chamber, your workshop is the place to find it, not the field.
Read below.
This isn't a problem at all. I haven't read the other posts so don't know prevailing wisdom here. It is not a problem because you as did not size the case, only the neck, the tolerances are very tight so your casing length and width in the chamber are going to be very close hence the scuffing by the ejector and the tight feel when you chamber the round. This may even make your rounds more accurate as you now have better concentricity of the bullet in the throat and free bore. If you are concerned about easy and quick reload when hunting, you may have to size the case a bit to ease chambering.
Other than that, it is not a problem - happy shooting!
Other than that, it is not a problem - happy shooting!
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Read the first post and am answering the question directly.
This is why partial sizing with a FL sizer is not a good idea. The resistance to chambering can be caused in two places:
1) The neck has expanded to form a second shoulder which you are squeezing into the chamber (neck area). No biggie as it will never be smaller then the die sized portion so will not cause a 'jammed' bullet effect. However, it may cause runout if for some weird reason the case is pushed a bit off center.
2) With a magnum, the case is going to stretch unless you have very tight lock up on your action. Even then, the high pressures tend to expand brass beyond its elastic limits. By only partial sizing, the case is now at min headspace and will vary from case to case. You may very well have a case that is or will become too long to chamber.
The results will be random.
Solutions:
1) you can fully size your cases after every firing - makes for easy chambering but may allow too much case stretching leading to separation or
2) you can buy a body die and just bump the shoulder after each firing. The die will not size anymore then the shoulder area (unless you really have a fat chamber) so there is no oversizing of the web. By adjusting the die, you can bump the shoulder just a thou or two. Chambering is assured without letting the brass stretch too much on subsequent firings.
Ideally, you will have a proper neck sizing die (bushing or collet) and a body die. This is the best way to make your brass function AND last. No runout either.
Jerry
This is why partial sizing with a FL sizer is not a good idea. The resistance to chambering can be caused in two places:
1) The neck has expanded to form a second shoulder which you are squeezing into the chamber (neck area). No biggie as it will never be smaller then the die sized portion so will not cause a 'jammed' bullet effect. However, it may cause runout if for some weird reason the case is pushed a bit off center.
2) With a magnum, the case is going to stretch unless you have very tight lock up on your action. Even then, the high pressures tend to expand brass beyond its elastic limits. By only partial sizing, the case is now at min headspace and will vary from case to case. You may very well have a case that is or will become too long to chamber.
The results will be random.
Solutions:
1) you can fully size your cases after every firing - makes for easy chambering but may allow too much case stretching leading to separation or
2) you can buy a body die and just bump the shoulder after each firing. The die will not size anymore then the shoulder area (unless you really have a fat chamber) so there is no oversizing of the web. By adjusting the die, you can bump the shoulder just a thou or two. Chambering is assured without letting the brass stretch too much on subsequent firings.
Ideally, you will have a proper neck sizing die (bushing or collet) and a body die. This is the best way to make your brass function AND last. No runout either.
Jerry
After seeing the crimp marks on the neck in the picture, I wouldn't be surprise if you crush the bullet a little. Used or buy a Kinetic hammer to pull your dummy rounds and look for distortion. If you’re using a neck bushing, you should have a least minimum of 3 different sizes on hand for that type of set up.
I would highly recommend cleaning your dies on regular intervals and making sure your vent holes aren’t plug up with a build up of lube and failing to let the dies breath. The hydraulic action of the lube can cause damage to your brass case with little difference felt on the handle.
For those inclined to do so; make a go, no go gauge for your first to spec dummy round, with your particular bullet cartridge formula. An easy way is a reverse molding technique using car wax for a release agent, pipe cut to OAL, and plaster of Paris left to cure, for a cheap cartridge checker.
Mark the mold specifically, for what it was made for, as not to mix it up with any other cartridge bullet rifle chambering combination, which may not be generic, to other caliber firearms in the SAAMI list in dimensions.
In Layman’s terms so you or anyone don’t used it for anything else.
Driller
I would highly recommend cleaning your dies on regular intervals and making sure your vent holes aren’t plug up with a build up of lube and failing to let the dies breath. The hydraulic action of the lube can cause damage to your brass case with little difference felt on the handle.
For those inclined to do so; make a go, no go gauge for your first to spec dummy round, with your particular bullet cartridge formula. An easy way is a reverse molding technique using car wax for a release agent, pipe cut to OAL, and plaster of Paris left to cure, for a cheap cartridge checker.
Mark the mold specifically, for what it was made for, as not to mix it up with any other cartridge bullet rifle chambering combination, which may not be generic, to other caliber firearms in the SAAMI list in dimensions.
In Layman’s terms so you or anyone don’t used it for anything else.
Driller
