Questions about the NEW winchester model 70

spenom

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I saw some info on the Winchester MODEL 70 EXTREME WEATHER SS as well as the Model 70 Coyote Light. First off I have done some searching around and cannot find any info from anybody who actually owns and has shot one of these two rifles. So is there anyone on gun nutz here that owns one of these fine looking rifles? what do you think? How does the MOA trigger system feel? Pro's con's? How are your group sizes? I noticed that the all weather extreme chambered in 30-06 has a capacity of 5 rounds VS chambered in 300 win mag and only having a capacity of 3. I was torn between the two cartridges but the extra capacity would have me heading the 30-06's direction. I would be using this gun mainly for hunting whitetail + mule deer, moose, black bear. I am looking at this gun as an alternative to the Tikka T3 lite while still weighing close to the same. Plus I like the idea of controlled feed Vs push feed. So anyone with some first hand experience or even just a some good sounding internet BS on the new model 70 all weather extreme or to a lesser extent the coyote light, I would love to hear it.

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WOW no one has any info on it eh? Well I took it upon myself to wander on down to wholesale sports and look at a few. First things first. Quality control at the Winchester or should I say FN factory must still have a few issues. Some of the rifles were nice and some had issues. I looked at about 5 of these rifles overall and there were differences. One I looked at in 30-06 was very nice. Another in 300 win mag had a really terrible fitting stock and the barrel was very noticeably off center in the chanel. Another one had a gash in the surface the bolt slides on. Pretty much all the rifles had a very bad hinge on the floor plate that would allow the floor plate to go out of alignment with the latch enough that it would close but not click into place. It would then spring open later. Other times it just would not latch closed. as for more normal differences between the models I looked at. The 30-06 has a shorter barrel than the 300 win mag and you really can tell when handling the rifle. Also the weight difference between the two is slightly noticeable. The magnum and wsm rifles can only handle 3 rounds in the internal mag. The 30-06 can handle 5. Overall the rifles are still nice and light. That is until you pick up a sako A7 right after. The documentation says they are only .25 of a pound heavier than say a tikka or sako but when you hold the two together you can tell what hand the heavier winchester is in. Overall though if you pay attention to fit and finish and sort of do your own little quality control inspection and get a nice one they are beautiful rifles. The B&C stock is really nice (might feel a tad beefy to some guys that are used to skinnier rifles). Bottom line I put one in 30-06 on hold because they only had one in that caliber. I could go on and on about it but those are my basic thoughts right now. I would love to hear from anyone else who has one.
 
I have one in 30-06. It's the extreme weather. Haven't shot it yet, but the fit and finish is very nice, way better that the old Win 70. Trigger seems awsome when I dry fire with dummy rounds.

In every aspect, it's now being made by FN, so I think it will be good. Tikka is a nice rifle, but in my heart and mind, it will never be as good as the Win 70 with the mauser extractor.

Hope it helps. ;)
 
I have one in 30-06. It's the extreme weather. Haven't shot it yet, but the fit and finish is very nice, way better that the old Win 70. Trigger seems awsome when I dry fire with dummy rounds.

In every aspect, it's now being made by FN, so I think it will be good. Tikka is a nice rifle, but in my heart and mind, it will never be as good as the Win 70 with the mauser extractor.

Hope it helps. ;)

That is the exact model and caliber I am looking at. I like that the 30-06 can fit 5 rounds in the internal mag VS just 3 if chambered in 300 win mag. The shorter barrel is nice too! How did you find the floor plate latch mechanism on your gun? It seems a bit sloppy on the ones I tried. Not a big deal really, just that you have to make sure it is lined up VS just slapping it closed. Also how scratch resistant is the stock in your opinion? I plan on dragging this gun through the bush for many years to come.
 
Here is some info a friend e-mailed me for any others looking for info on this I am just going to past it here.

It was just too good of a rifle to end up on the scrap heap of history. Born in the middle of the Great Depression, the classic Model 70 soldiered on from 1936 to 1963 in more model and caliber variations than any other American rifle, then or now.

Purists decried the abandonment of its Mauser-inspired, controlled-round feeding and cone breech in 1964 in favor of the less expensive "push feed" action, but having fired tens of thousands of .308 and .30-06 rounds through several "post-64" target rifles, I think the push-feed action was a bit better than its critics acknowledged. Well, Model 70 lovers, you got your way. After a brief and unfortunate absence, the classic Model 70 is back, and it's better than ever.

The new Model 70 has a new home. Now made and assembled in Columbia, South Carolina, the Model 70 shares space in FN's latest manufacturing facility with production lines producing M240 and M249 machine guns, M16's, SCARs and FN pistols.

Walking through FN's 170,000 square toot, state-of-the-art plant, you see little but rows and rows of canopied, computer programmed, machining centers and robotic manufacturing Frankly, in the firearms business. I miss the old, overhead shafting and belt driven lathes and milling machines, and some of the characters who ran them and kept them running with a shim or two, here and there.

In fact, the only part of the new Model 70 made entirely in-house is its hammer-forged barrel. The stocks are made by American Walnut. Another firm forges and finish machines the actions. I did see the new trigger and the bolt sleeve and safety being assembled in-house. In short, the new FN plant epitomizes modern production, outsourcing parts to specialized firms when it makes economic sense while having complete quality control over the final product assembled and finished in-house.

There have been some subtle changes introduced in the new, classic Model 70. Gone, with good riddance, is the old 2-part bottom metal consisting of a triggerguard and a separate floorplate. It is now machined as one, solid piece, secured to the action with hex-head guard screws. For the initial production run, the floorplate was nicely engraved with an inscription reading, "2008, Model 70, Limited Edition."

There's a new trigger. Gone is what I thought was the most simple, trouble free and most easily adjusted trigger in the industry. In its place, is a new 3-lever trigger owner adjustable from three to five pounds and factory set to 3-3/4 pounds. All internal parts are stainless steel, and the critical moving parts, the sear and the intermediate actuator, are coated with electroless nickel Teflon. The stated advantages of the new trigger design are it offers zero take up, zero creep and zero overtravel.

To make any adjustments to the trigger, you first have to remove the barreled action from the stock. On the test rifle, it proved a challenge. Both the recoil lug and the tang are glass-bedded by the factory. On the test rifle, the fit was so tight I could not, with hand pressure or even by reinserting and tapping on the guard screws, separate the two assemblies. I think I could have by rapping with a bit more vigor on the guard screws, but I didn't want to risk cracking the stock of a rifle I needed to shoot for group. The factory has been advised.

The overall polishing and fit of the new Model 70 is outstanding. The initial production run I saw in South Carolina was focused entirely on the Featherweight model. Poking around the tables of Featherweight barreled-actions awaiting stocks, I discovered chamberings in .270 Win, .270 WSM, .30-06, .300 Win and .300 WSM.

I well remember the day when the old pre-64 Featherweight hit the streets. Winchester had not only come up with a stunning barrel profile, they insured it would shoot by entirely free-floating the barrel. The typical American rifleman had never before seen a stock with gaping stock clearances on both sides of the barrel. The jokes emerged the factory was employing to bed the new Featherweights. The jokes ended once the Featherweights arrived on the range and delivered MOA or better groups.

The current Featherweight is still free-floated, and its svelte, Schnabel fore-end stock is still one of the most elegant designs ever introduced in the industry. The cut checkering pattern is aesthetic, and the diamonds, sharply defined. A nice touch to the new stock is the addition of a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad. It proved easy on the shoulder, and it anchors the rifle securely to the floor.

The test Featherweight with its target crowned 22" barrel was suitably chambered for the .270 Win. I complemented the caliber with the addition of a 6X Leupold. On hand were three 130-grain factory loads: Winchester Super-X Power-Point, Federal Classic Sierra Pro-Hunter and Speer Grand Slam. Based on 3-shot groups at 100 yards, the Super-X at 2,962 fps and the S peer at 3,170 averaged between 1-1/4" to 1-1/2". The Federal Sierra Pro-Hunter loading at 2,977 fps stole the day, averaging 3/4".

Any of the three loads would be more than accurate for hunting purposes. Now if I could combine the velocity of the Speer loading with the accuracy of Federal's Sierra Pro-Hunter loading, the end product would definitely qualify for bragging rights.

Bottom line? The overall fit, finish, engineering improvements and accuracy of the new Classic Model 70 place it right at the head of the Model 70 lineage. Better yet, it is stamped with the original Winchester name, dating back to 1866 when Oliver Winchester named his company Winchester Repeating Arms. Given the flexibility of modern production, plan on seeing some fascinating, limited-run variations of "The Rifleman's Rifle."

MODEL 70 FEATHERWEIGHT DELUXE

MAKER: WINCHESTER REPEATING ARMS
275 WINCHESTER AVE., MORGAN, UT 84050


ACTION TYPE: Bolt action

CALIBER: .270 Win (tested, others available)
CAPACITY: 5
BARREL LENGTH: 22"
OVERALL LENGTH: 42-1/2"
WEIGHT: 6-3/4 pounds
FINISH: Blue
SIGHTS: Drilled and tapped for scope mounts
STOCK: Walnut
PRICE: $999
 
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And another article.

This legendary rifle has been produced in three distinct versions, and its current incarnation may just be the best yet.

Winchester's Model 70 bolt action rifle has been in production for some 65 years. More correctly Winchester has produced rifles under the Model 70 designation for 65 years. The rifle itself has gone through three major and many minor revisions.

Early Model 70s

First offered in 1935, the Model 70 reflected the influence of the Mauser 98 and 1903 Springfield, as well as its Model 54 predecessor. A Mauser-type extractor provided controlled round feeding and engaged a wide arc of the cartridge rim to promote positive extraction. Like the Springfield, the Model 70 had a coned breech which helped funnel cartridges into the chamber.

The Model 70 trigger was the first really good trigger on an American bolt action rifle -- so advanced that it remains essentially unchanged to this day. Though not adapted to producing a really light pull, it can be tuned to around 3 lbs by a knowledgeable gunsmith. Properly tuned it is extremely tough and reliable.

The handsome, distinctive swept-back bolt handle of the Model 70 provided ample clearance of low-mounted scopes. The original safety on top of the bolt sleeve would work with a low-mounted scope, but was none too easy to access and was later redesigned to its present form.

This excellent safety locks the firing pin rather than just blocking the sear. Swung all the way back it locks both pin and bolt. In its center position the firing pin is locked but the bolt can he operated to load or unload. All the way forward is the "fire" position.

The quality of materials and workmanship of the early Model 70s helped establish the rifle's, reputation. Manufacturing the original Model 70 action was by no means a simple task. Machining the receivers required a large number of complicated operations, as did producing the bolts from a single piece of steel. It was a job for highly skilled machinists.

The pre-war Model 70s made up to 1941 (serial number range 1 to 31,675) reflect the skill and pride of workmanship of those workers. Stocks were of hard, straight-grained walnut, carefully shaped, inletted, and checkered.

Actions and barrels were made of the best steels available, finished with care and properly heat-treated. Barrels were cut-rifled, one groove at a time. Every rifle received a great deal of skilled hand work. Few production rifles have ever received such tender loving care.

After The War

Production virtually ceased during the war as Winchester was fully occupied producing arms and ammunition for the war effort. The post-war economic boom changed the firearms industry, and Winchester found that its beautiful, virtually hand-built Model 70 was ill suited for the high-speed production that the postwar market demanded.

It was Winchester's arch rival Remington that took the lead in redesigning its products for the new post-war world. Remington developed new models with ease of production as a central goal. As an example, the post-war Remington 721/722 action was essentially a round bolt moving within a round receiver, with a flat plate sandwiched between barrel and receiver to serve as a recoil lug.

The bolt handle and locking lugs were made as separate parts and brazed to the bolt body. The ingeniously designed and reliable trigger mechanism was made largely of metal stampings. Inletting stocks to accept the round barrel and receiver proved easier and faster.

By 1950, a Winchester Model 70 Standard grade rifle retailed at $109.50. At the same time a Remington 721 Standard grade listed at $79.95. Set them side by side and no one would dispute that the Winchester was a more handsome rifle with its checkered stock and polished finish. But in terms of practical utility the Remington did everything the Model 70 did -- and cost some 40 percent less.

Remington delivered another blow to Winchester's profits in 1962 when it redesigned the 721/722 series into the Model 700. The 700 was very similar in design to the 721/722, but with a better looking stock and generally better finish.

Winchester was in a bind. With the technology of the era they simply could not produce Model 70s at a price that would be competitive with the Remington 700 or the newer Savage 110. They could have opted to upgrade quality and raise the price, trying to appeal to more discriminating rifle enthusiasts. However, this upscale market has never been a large one, and in any case there would have been competition from Weatherby and the new Browning bolt action rifle.

Love It Or Hate It: The Post-'64

Design of a revised bolt action had been going on at Winchester for some years. In some ways the new action was closer in design to the Remington 700 than to the pre-'64 Model 70. Its bolt was made in three pieces with the handle and locking lug section brazed on. It had a recessed bolt face, an extractor built into the right locking lug, and a spring-loaded plunger ejector. The receiver, made by a die-forging process, was flat-bottomed with an integral recoil lug. The excellent trigger mechanism, three-position safety and slanted bolt handle of the old Model 70 were retained.

Knocking the post-'64 Model 70 action has been a popular sport for years. In fact it is a very good action, and for some purposes it is better than the pre-'64 design. Like the Remington 700, the post-'64 M-70 is a rigid, concentric action that is inherently accurate. Maybe it would have been better if Winchester had just given it a new model number and retained the old Model 70 as a special order item, as they did with the Model 12 shotgun, letting it retire with dignity.

The basic design of the post-'64 action was sound, but the execution of the first rifles was terrible. Receivers had a gray, matte finish that looked like cast iron. Barrels were free-floated (a good feature for consistent accuracy) by hogging out wood from the forearm until it appeared you could have stored your lunch and sleeping bag under the barrel. The "checkering" was simply stamped into the wood. Triggers weren't very good, and bolt travel was rough and wobbly.

Still, Winchester was able to sell them at a competitive price, and for a lot of people, price is what matters most. Moreover, Winchester did listen to the complaints from rifle enthusiasts and in 1968 announced a redesigned rifle.

The biggest design change was increasing the size of the right locking lug and then slotting it, the slot riding a rail on the right side of the receiver. This clever feature smoothed up bolt travel considerably and has been much copied. They also added a polished stainless steel cartridge follower and a reshaped stock with the barrel fully bedded.

Not As Good As We Remember

One of the enduring myths of the rifle world is that the pre- '64 Model 70 was a spectacular sales success, which the foolish and short-sighted management team at Winchester replaced with the cheaper post '64 model out of pure greed. Supposedly, this error promptly backfired on them when the marketplace rejected the new model.

In reality, sales of the pre- '64 were never that great, even in the boom years from 1945 to 1955 simply because Winchester could not produce them fast enough Eat a competitive cost. Far from being a failure, the post '64 Model 70 outsold the previous model by a considerable margin. From a business standpoint, the only mistake Winchester made was acting 20 years too late.

Responding to continued criticism from riflemen, Winchester sought to address a number of appearance issues. One of these centered on the quality of stock checkering, and Winchester developed a method to machine-checker gun stocks. Although their first efforts weren't as good as hand checkering, they were better in function and appearance than the awful stamped check ering of the early post- '64 guns.

Winchester quality continued to improve through the '70s. The bombshell came in 1981 when Winchester announced the model 70 Featherweight. It featured the beautifully contoured, slim barrel of the old Featherweight along with one of the most handsome and functional stocks ever offered on a production rifle. Winchester began taking more pains with accuracy-enhancing details as well, such as concentricity of chamber and bore, engagement of locking lugs, and proper fit of barrel and receiver.

One reason for this was likely to make the firearms division of Winchester more appealing to potential investors. For some time Olin had wanted to get out of firearms manufacturing in order to focus on the more stable business of manufacturing ammunition. Eventually the United States Repeating Arms Corp. was formed to take over the firearms division and licensed to use the Winchester name and trademarks. For a time Winchester fans feared the grand old name might not survive, but USRAC has done an exemplary job of maintaining a proud tradition.

Resurrecting The Classic

The most significant move of USRAC was introducing a third Model 70 action which included the fine qualities of the pre-'64 with a couple of worthwhile improvements. The redesign was made possible by changes in manufacturing techniques such as computer-assisted design and manufacturing.

The complicated machining process required to make a pre-'64 receiver, which could once be accomplished only by a skilled machinist with plenty of time, could now be done more quickly -- and maybe even more precisely -- by computer controlled machines. It's not as traditional as hand work done by a skilled artisan, but the end result is a rifle which echoes the precise construction of the pre-war Model 70s.

The Model 70 "Classic" action is similar in appearance and function to the pre-'64 model. It uses the Mauser-type claw extractor with controlled round feeding, a coned breech and mechanical ejection. The slotted right locking lug from the 1968 design is retained, resulting in very smooth, non-binding bolt operation.

To prevent powder gases from coming down the left locking lug raceway in the event of a case head failure, a steel lug attached to the bolt blocks the raceway. (Actually, modern brass is so good that case failure is pretty much unheard of unless the shooter does something monumentally careless, such as firing the rifle with the bore obstructed.)

Regardless of the legend that has built up around the pre-'64 rifle, the Model 70 Classic is a superior action. It is better designed, very well made, and the rifles have a much better shaped and finished stock.

USRAC tested the water with the new design in the early '90s. Acceptance was so overwhelmingly positive that the Classic action has become the mainstay of the Model 70 lineup. Wisely, USRAC retained the post-'64 push feed action for models in which accuracy is at a premium such as the varmint models and the economical Black Shadow rifle.

An interesting side effect of the new Classic action was that it reduced demand for pre-'64 actions. Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values (21st edition) shows a value for a pre-'64 Model 70 in .30-'06 (98 percent condition) at $700 in 1989, and a value for the same rifle of $650 in 2000, a 7 percent decrease.

Pre-'64s will always be collectible (there won't be any more of them) but condition has become more critical. New condition and prewar Model 70s will still bring premium prices but there seems to be less demand for actions as a base for custom rifles

Three different actions with the same model number does cause confusion. If someone says they have a Model 70, you don't really know what it is until you know if it's a pre-'64, post-'64 push feed or post-'64 Classic. In all three series there have been individual rifles that were excellent right out of the box and others that needed a bit of tuning. Current rifles of all makes usually come with heavy trigger pulls that need attention. Overall, current Model 70s are as good as any, and the stock designs are certainly the best ever.

In the 1960s we met a fellow who had hunted and trapped in Alaska for many years. His sole rifle was an old Model 70 .375 H&H. Modern shooters can wax sentimental about the "classic stock design" but this old timer hated it. The excessive drop at comb and heel increased muzzle jump and intensified felt recoil. By comparison the current stock design is a pleasure to shoot. Offer us a pre-war Model 70 and we'll grab it for its collector value, but for practical shooting performance we'll take the current model every time.
 
Spenom good information here.
I've had the same burning questions since visiting the new Wholesale Sports in Nanaimo the people there were very helpful and are very much in favour of the new Winchester 70, but no one could say exactly how accurate the new Win 70's are.

To me the Supergrade in 30 06 looks and feels great as do the other Win 70 rifles but there is no guaranty as to accuracy like that which Tikka or Sako delivers.
Thanks I now have some accuracy information on the Win 70's and as expected it is impressive, the 270WSM is becoming a good consideration in the Win 70.
 
Hi,
Although I do not own, nor have I shot the new model 70 I have sold a few and can report on the feedback received from the customer.
Generally speaking the reviews have been very positive. Since its introduction we have seen the Featherweight, Extreme Weather, Super Grade, Shadow and Sporter and all exhibit very good fit and finish - apart, that is from one Extreme Weather in 300 Win. which will have to be returned because of poor fitting of the stock to action, and poor floorplate alignment exactly as described above.
Accuracy appears to be very good principally because of a free floated barrel and the excellent MOA trigger which, when dry-fired at least is crisp and precise. I treat stories about any rifle consistantly producing 0.5 MOA groups with a large pinch of salt, but those aside this rifle with suitable ammunition should easily be capable of 1.0 MOA.
The CRF or push feed debate has been dragged over ad-infinitum here but of all the CRF actions I have tried the Winchester's is one of the smoothest - though nowhere near as smooth as a T3, A7 or Sako 85.
The main competition for this rifle will be the Tikka, Sako A7 and the Remington 700 and it will do very well for cutomers who prefer a traditionally made rifle featuring good wood stocks and well finished metalwork. Is it as good out of the box as a T3 or an A7? - not quite but it gives Remington another problem to deal with together with the questionable quality control they have shown over the past few months.
Regards
Tack
 
Good information. I have been waiting to hear or see some range reports on these guns. Anyone out there pulled the trigger on one and willing to let us know how well they grouped etc?
 
Good information. I have been waiting to hear or see some range reports on these guns. Anyone out there pulled the trigger on one and willing to let us know how well they grouped etc?

:D

I have been waiting to hear or see some range reports on these guns. Anyone out there pulled the trigger on one and willing to let us know how well they grouped etc?

Me too !! :mad:

Keep getting the same feel good "Rifleman's rifle" history lesson fluff and no numbers with every New Model 70 "evaluation" I've read here & elsewhere.

Can anyone post some objective range reports (those things that talk about loads, group sizes, accuracy & all that dull technical stuff that separates the real rifles from the pretentious "noise makers") on these rifles or doesn't anyone want to admit they can't shoot as good as an out of the box Savage that's $200 cheaper?? ;)

Time to quit slinging the poop & show us a group......or two .....or three......or more. ;)
 
So Spenom, You put an Extreme Weather SS on hold back in October. Did you ever pick it up? Did you decide not to buy it? Did you buy it but haven't shot it yet? I was considering one of these rifles as well, but the lack of info has put me off. Please let us know what you ended up doing with the one you put on hold in October!
 
So Spenom, You put an Extreme Weather SS on hold back in October. Did you ever pick it up? Did you decide not to buy it? Did you buy it but haven't shot it yet? I was considering one of these rifles as well, but the lack of info has put me off. Please let us know what you ended up doing with the one you put on hold in October!

I did put one on hold back in October. I did not end up getting it though. I swear that if I pick one up I will post a lengthy review complete with pictures of group sizes etc. I cannot believe that really nowhere on the entire internet is a good review of one of these rifles and how they shoot. I don't want to read another magazine/corporate ad giving as pricedo said "the same feel good Rifleman's rifle" history lesson fluff and no numbers". These guns have been on the shelf for long enough that it is weird that no one has really piped up with any real world info about any of the new model 70's than FN is putting out. I would think such a big change is such a historic rifle would at least register a blip on the radar. Plus where are all the self proclaimed model 70 nuts? Sorry to rant, someone who has bought and shot this rifle please throw us a bone.
 
I started work with mine today. After i got it on paper at 100 yards shots 4, 5, 6 went into an 7/8 group. The ammunition was some old 165 grain SST hand loads I had laying around. First impressions, I'm not overly fond of the stock and I need to get rid of a bunch of travel in the trigger.
 
I started work with mine today. After i got it on paper at 100 yards shots 4, 5, 6 went into an 7/8 group. The ammunition was some old 165 grain SST hand loads I had laying around. First impressions, I'm not overly fond of the stock and I need to get rid of a bunch of travel in the trigger.

Weird the ones I tried in the store had no travel at all really. nice and crisp.
 
Weird the ones I tried in the store had no travel at all really. nice and crisp.
And so does mine now, I lightened the pull while I was there. Just two set scews one for each adjustment someone wasn't paying attention when put the screw in.
 
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