Got my eye on 2 hunting rifles need help making a decision

Tumbleweed said:
I guess I just can't imagine why anyone would want a hunting rifle that's made out of plastic, with bits and pieces that fly off when you use it.

If you must have one, for crying out loud, keep it in town....take it to the range and shoot your paper targets and show them to your friends over at the skateboard park; at least you'll be closer to the hospital when it blows up or the bolt shroud takes your eye out.

When you go to the bush, take a real rifle.

:D That ought to get 'em screechin'!:D
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LOL!

Quote from Silverado:"There are Sporter, Super Grade and Featherweight models available, the Featherweight being the nicer of the three IMO, but the Super Grade is fancier."

Thanks for the heads up.
 
hunting rifle that's made out of plastic:jerkit:

I just can't imagine why anyone would want a hunting rifle that's made out of plastic:

You guys are right, :agree:
Why would any body want hunting gear made of plastic???

My Gerber go to knife, my old buck skinning knife, and my back up knife, a Normark folding knife got to go. All plastic handles.
Pity I have owned these for decades. They worked fine on the over 35 big game I have taken. And worked on as many more of other guys game.
Funny I never noticed they were junk.
Thanks to Chuck H. and Tumbleweed for pointing this out.

I will need a knife with a stag horn handle, don't care what that costs.
I need other peoples approval most of all.
Bone will be porous. Might hold on to bacteria.

Some day maybe science will invent a synthetic material that is light and can be made to any shape and texture. I will be so strong it will become a key component in fighter jet planes and F1 cars.

The old normark, sigh. Bought it when I was just a kid, over 30 years ago.
One year in Quebec I got a 2 1/2 year old bull. Cleaned him out myself. Next day buddy gets another one. 4 of us on this moose. By the time it was almost done the others were asking to borrow my knife cause it had the best edge. Made in Finland I believe, pure junk, dam plastic handle going to fall apart any day now.

I gave up on folding knives as a primary knife the day partner and I were doing a couple of barren ground caribou up in the territories. His folding knife folded in on him and he got a bad cut. Good thing I had my 1st aid kit.
Comes in a bright yello friggin plastic case. I will get some moose hide and make a pouch for that 1st aid kit ASAP. I will have to learn to sew. I will put aside the silly financial planning/retirement books I've been reading. I will learn to sew animal hides like Daniel Boone. I will need moccasins too. All my hunting boots synthetic rubber plastic soles on them. Big future in sewing animal hide. New latest thing.

The rest of my hunting gear...
thermos dam plastic
GPS f*&#$#$ plastic
cell phone F$%*&# dam plastic
day pac more plastic
flashlites friggin dam plastic
camo outfit dam plastic zipper
my 2006 truck oh my god, I never noticed till now, some parts are @#@#@#plastic
 
Wow that anti plastic rant was pretty funny..... Because some of it is true.

1.) My plastic thermos is poisonous. Just found out it is a toxic kind of plastic with a 7 in the recycling logo so the manufacturer actually recommended I dispose of it.

2.) The plastic cover on my gps that holds the batteries in broke in cold weather so now the batteries don't stay in unless I duct tape the cover on.

3.) The plastic screen on my cellphone is broken and now I cannot see the screen.

4.) My daypack is not plastic, so no comment

5.) I bought a metal flashlight ten years ago it is fine

6.) Plastic zipper on my back pack busted (in all truthfulness it is metal)

7.) everyone knows that pretty much any truck made in 2006 pales in comparison to the older (read metal) trucks.

But this is not about plastic VS metal besides the fact tikka's are 90% plastic
 
You do not have to buy a plastic Tikka!

Thay make em in wood too!

And you can buy a plastic 70 if you wish,,,they are about as pretty as the plastic tikka!

Dont knock it unless you have tried it...
 
Maybe if Tikka was a North American brand people wouldn't dislike them so much.
I bought a new M70 Featherweight a few years back, it came from the factory with a crossthreaded action screw.

My 2 Tikkas, albeit M695 not T3's, are very much used and abused and have never failed and all plastic parts are intact. It depends who you talk to.

If someone wants to trade their 30/06 Tikka for my M70 Featherweight, send me a PM. :)
 
JasonYuke said:
You do not have to buy a plastic Tikka!

Thay make em in wood too!

And you can buy a plastic 70 if you wish,,,they are about as pretty as the plastic tikka!

Dont knock it unless you have tried it...
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It's not the plastic stock we're #####ing about. It's the plastic bolt shroud, trigger gaurd, magazine, and the magazine components :cool: .

And the "plastic Model 70" you speak of actually sports a TRUE synthetic, aluminum bedded Bell and Carlson stock :kickInTheNuts: :D .

*cough* plastic sucks *cough* :nest:
 
spenom said:
One funny thing about searching for information on tikka in google is that you sure come up with a lot of tasty recipies for chicken.
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Chicken Tikka Masala is delicious.

On a somewhat related note, the plastic magazine on the new Browning X-Bolt feels tragically fragile, especially the rotary follower.
 
Well I have pretty much ruled out Tikka as a firearm (not as a yummy recipe for chicken though). So model 70 it is. I also know that I will be getting the all weather SS extreme. So as for caliber I have ruled out 300 win mag because of the barrel length, reduced mag capacity, slightly extra weight, cost and availability of ammo in remote areas as well as the fact that is more gun than I need for the types of animals I am going to be shooting. I am really in love with the idea of a 30-06. I do see the gun is made in .308, .270 and .243 as well. .243 is a nice caliber but to small so it is out.

.270 is a flat shooter but a bit small for bigger stuff. So it looks like the decision is between 30-06 and .308. The main reason I am now considering .308 is because I already have 1 gun in .308 for target shooting and once I get into reloading it would save money to only have to buy .308 dies. Plus the model 70 is a short action for .308 vs a long action for 30-06. Really though how much of a difference does long action VS short action make? How much farther do you really have to stroke the bolt or a model 70 when it is a long action VS a short? Will I even really feel the difference?
 
This article is what got me thinking about the whole .308 vs 30-06 in the model 70 issue (I am leaning towards 30-06)


Accuracy Facts
.308 Winchester versus .30-06 Springfield

By Bart Bobbitt

Seems to me that any time there's more metal contacting the bullet, the greater [the] chance that more variables come into play. Besides, folks who shoot highpower rifles the most accurate[ly] have very little case neck tension on the bullet anyway.

It's really easier to have uniform case neck tension by having it light in the first place; neck length doesn't come into play when this is how it's done. And ammo that's been handloaded [which is] then let set for several weeks or months will have a greater release force needed with long necks because of dissimilar materials bonding between bullet jacket and case neck/fouling. There's more area to bond when longer necks are used.

All that aside, lets go back to when the .30-06 and .308 were the only cartridges allowed in NRA match rifle matches. Both cartridges were used in barrels of equal quality as well as the same action and stocks by several top shooters in the USA. Both cartridges were used in matches at ranges from 100 through 1000 yards. Many thousands of rounds were fired in both types. Bullets from 168 through 200 grains were used with several powder, case and primer combinations.

In comparing accuracy between the .308 and .30-06, folks who used each quickly agreed on one thing: .308s were two to three times more accurate than the .30-06. In the early 1960s, it was also observed that competitors with lower classifications using .308s were getting higher scores than higher classified folks using .30-06s; at all ranges. By the middle to late 1960s, all the top highpower shooters and virtually all the rest had switched to the .308. The Highpower Committee had received so many complaints of ties not being able to be broke between shooters using the .308 and shooting all their shots in the tie-breaking V-ring, something had to be done to resolve this issue. In 1966, the NRA cut in half the target scoring ring dimensions.

At the peak of the .30-06's use as a competition cartridge, the most accurate rifles using it would shoot groups at 200 yards of about 2 inches, at 300 of about 3 inches. The 600-yard groups were 6 to 7 inches and at 1000 yards about 16 inches. As the high-scoring ring in targets was 3 inches at 200 and 300 yards, 12 inches at 600 and 20 inches at 1000, the top scores fired would have 90+ percent of the shots inside this V-ring.

Along came the 7.62mm NATO and its commercial version; the .308 Winchester. In the best rifles, 200 yard groups were about 3/4ths inch, at 300 about 1-1/2 inch. At 600 yards, groups were about 2-1/2 inch and at 1000 about 7 to 8 inches. It was not very long before the .30-06 round no longer won matches nor set any records; all it's records were broken by the .308 by a considerable margin. Some accuracy tests at 600 yards with the .308 produced test groups in the 1 to 2 inch range. These were 20 to 40 shot groups. No .30-06 has ever come close to shooting that well.

At 1000 yards, where both the .30-06 and .308 were allowed in Palma matches, the .308 was the clear-cut most accurate of the two. If top shooters felt the .30-06 was a more accurate round, they would have used it - they didn't. In fact by the early 1970s, the scoring ring dimensions on the 800 - 1000 yard target were also cut in about half due to the accuracy of both the .308 Win. over the .30-06 and the .30-.338 over the .300 H&H when used in long range matches.

Most top highpower shooters feel the main reason the .308 is much more accurate than the .30-06 is its shorter, fatter case promotes more uniform and gentle push on the bullet due to a higher loading density (less air space) and a more easily uniformly ignitable powder charge.

Military arsenals who produced match and service ammo in both 7.62mm and 30 caliber have fired thousands of test rounds/groups with both. They also found out that with both ammo types, the smallest groups were with the 7.62 by about 50 to 60 percent. M1 rifles in 7.62 shot about twice as small of groups as .30 M1s at all ranges. When the M14 was first used, there were some .30-06 M1 rifles that would shoot more accurately. It took the service teams several years to perfect the methods of making M14s shoot well, but when they did, they shot as good as M1s in 7.62.

There will always be folks who claim the .30-06 is a more accurate cartridge. All I have to say to them is to properly test .308 vs. .30-06 and find out. Theory is nice to think about; facts determine the truth.
 
archie_james_c said:
It's not the plastic stock we're #####ing about. It's the plastic bolt shroud, trigger gaurd, magazine, and the magazine components :cool: .

And the "plastic Model 70" you speak of actually sports a TRUE synthetic, aluminum bedded Bell and Carlson stock :kickInTheNuts: :D .

*cough* plastic sucks *cough* :nest:
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Let's not forget the Model 70 Black Shadow.

What's a true synthetic? The oh-so-fantastic Bell & Carlson is 1 step up from Ram-Line. :D
 
archie_james_c said:
It's not the plastic stock we're #####ing about. It's the plastic bolt shroud, trigger gaurd, magazine, and the magazine components :cool: .

And the "plastic Model 70" you speak of actually sports a TRUE synthetic, aluminum bedded Bell and Carlson stock :kickInTheNuts: :D .

*cough* plastic sucks *cough* :nest:
Click to expand...

I have never had an issue with the bolt shrouds...but will agree was a silly thing to do..

The Tikka rifles do not need bedding to shoot sub moa!
 
spenom said:
Well I have pretty much ruled out Tikka as a firearm (not as a yummy recipe for chicken though). So model 70 it is. I also know that I will be getting the all weather SS extreme. So as for caliber I have ruled out 300 win mag because of the barrel length, reduced mag capacity, slightly extra weight, cost and availability of ammo in remote areas as well as the fact that is more gun than I need for the types of animals I am going to be shooting. I am really in love with the idea of a 30-06. I do see the gun is made in .308, .270 and .243 as well. .243 is a nice caliber but to small so it is out.

.270 is a flat shooter but a bit small for bigger stuff. So it looks like the decision is between 30-06 and .308. The main reason I am now considering .308 is because I already have 1 gun in .308 for target shooting and once I get into reloading it would save money to only have to buy .308 dies. Plus the model 70 is a short action for .308 vs a long action for 30-06. Really though how much of a difference does long action VS short action make? How much farther do you really have to stroke the bolt or a model 70 when it is a long action VS a short? Will I even really feel the difference?
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There's a lot of good in having 2 rifles chambered for the same cartridge.

A short action is about 1/4 lb lighter, and about 1/2" shorter than a long action.

The biggest plus to the short action IMO is actually having more latitude in positioning your scope. Sometimes with a long action, depending on your scope and mounts, you will need to use extension rings to make it fit.

Not a big deal as the rings/bases are widely available, but perhaps something to add to your list of pros/cons.
 
I think the Winchester Model 70 SS with the B&C stock is a very nice rifle, pretty hard to go wrong there.

As far as the 3006 vs 308 thing. I could probably argue both ways as they are both great cartridges. But if you already have a 308 the 3006 broadens your horizons. Dies are maybe 40 bucks and a good used set is cheaper at a gun show.

The 3006 offers a more versatility in the weight range of bullets you can load for it. That is, the 3006 will effectively launch a heavier bullet if one chooses to do so. I think for a hunting rifle that may be desirable.

I personally don't see the 4ozs less weight and the 1/4" (or whatever it is) less bolt travel as a relevent reason to choose one over the other.

For a hunting rig I'd say go 3006.
 
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