Precision scales.

[roberti11]

Here is my experience...

Long ago I realized that if I wanted to shoot I would need to speed up reloading as much as I could. I purchased a chargemaster to speed up my reloading and keep it accurate. It was apparent early on that the overthrows were a constant problem. Adding a soda straw and making it as long as possible helps a bit but there are still problems. These issues are inevitable and worse with stick powders than ball powders, in fact with ball powder the dispensed wts are essentially perfect. The dispenser used a auger to dispense the powder and with a stick powder there is no way to ensure that 1,2 sometimes more will fall with the last turn of the auger. I finally gave in a purchased an acculab. I use the chargemaster to drop the charges and then adjust them on teh acculab while the next charge is dropping.

Now if I knew what I know now, Iwould have purchased the acculab and used a simple powder dispenser to throw the inital charges and then adjust them on the acculab.

Hope this helps with your decision

 

[redman]

the reading on the Chargemaster always gave the wanted reading or was dumped back.

All you have to do is wait until the display goes back to showing the weight after the count to check if it's really at the inputted weight, then dump back if necessary. The chargemaster will beep after it has reached at least the desired weight, and therein lies the problem. Otherwise it's pretty fast: less than half a minute for 43 gr of IMR4064... Never timed it, though.

 

[Ian Robertson]

The point is that not only is the dispenser inaccurate but the scale is inaccurate as well (depending on your definition of "inaccurate"). If you allow the scale to count the charge number and then weigh this on a precision scale it is not always accurate. Given that you know what the accuracy is if it is good enough for what you need then that is okay. Of course we need to define what "good enough" really is, which I have not and probably depends on your cartridge. duh, I think.

 

[redman]

Ian,

What kind of deviations are you seeing when you weigh the ChargeMaster load on the precision scale? Would you say that the dispenser would work well with spherical powder?

I have to admit I'm a newbie reloader... I'm still tweaking my very first load, which'll either be 42.9 or 43.2 gr of that IMR. It's a .308 and these promising loads were sub-½MOA and that's good enough for my purposes (not exactly BR ).

 

[scout]

Try this trick...get a MacDonald's straw, cut about 1.25" off, and insert it into the dispenser tube so that about .25" is protruding. I cut the straw at an angle for the insertion end. I found out about this on another website, and my charges prettty much stopped going over.

I didn't have time to make it to Micky D's, so I cut @1" off the base of a .308 brass, did a pass of medical tape over the spout and slipped the top piece over the end. I also found that reprogramming really helped a lot ... much faster!

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/more-rcbs-chargemaster-tips/

 

[Blackcloud]

I have and use both an acculab and a charge master combo. The charge master is as stated previously, at worst accurate to a kernel or two of Varget. Mine tends to be on the one kernel variation side. Loading 308, 260rem and 300wm, I can't tell loading from one to the other. Using the acculab is just slower, that's all. Both have been reliable and I have owned both for a good while. My only complaint with the acculab is the it is ultra sensitive to any air movement, cordless or cell phones, and some types of overhead lighting.

 

[358]

Both the acculab and the chargemaster seem to be affected by flourescent lightng. I used the acculab for checking the rcbs, and found very few times where they differ by much. For sure can't tell by the chrony. Much difference should show up in 223 vel. using varget. Mark

 

[Corben1]

Does anyone use a Prometheus? I don't seem to hear much about them these days.

Mine has seen little use in the past ten years, but it is a good one. I recall it to be good for about 300 excellent loads an hour.

 

[roberti11]

The point is that not only is the dispenser inaccurate but the scale is inaccurate as well (depending on your definition of "inaccurate"). If you allow the scale to count the charge number and then weigh this on a precision scale it is not always accurate. Given that you know what the accuracy is if it is good enough for what you need then that is okay. Of course we need to define what "good enough" really is, which I have not and probably depends on your cartridge. duh, I think.

This may help answer the accuracy question, I did this earlier this year to get an idea of how accurate my Chargemaster was. The target wt is 42gn for IMR 4895 and 49gn for RL-19. You can decide if the accuracy here meets your needs. All the wts dispensed by the Chargemaster were re-weighed on an Acculab VIC 120.
I think that the loads may be good for hunting, and for some types of matches (Service rifle), however there is a range of up to 0.4 gns that exists bettween some of the loads, if you shot the extreme loads back to back it might be enough to cost you a vbull out at 1000 yards.

Here is the Data for RL-19

Here is IMR 4895

 

[maynard]

Are they still making those Bill? I haven't heard about them in a while and only ever saw one in Ottawa? Not sure if it was yours or Noel's. It seemed to be either the low end of high tech or high end of low tech, whichever way you wanted to look at it.

 

[Silverado]

I use the Lyman 1200 DPS and love it. I have a RCBS 505 as a backup, but haven't used it for quite some time. It cuts loading time in half. I wish that I had of gotten a DPS a long time ago. You'll love one when you get it.

I too have the 1200DPS. It totally changed the way I load ammo, and I love it.

I'm sad to say that it took a hard fall off my bench onto a concrete floor, and doesn't meter powder as well any more; it doesn't slow down and trickle up to weight accurately, but rather runs full speed up to where the programmed charge weight is displayed, and then stops cold. This always causes the actual charge to be too high. Now I must program a lighter charge, and manually trickle up to weight.

The scale is still accurate however.

I'd certainly buy one again. I've never used the RCBS unit so can't say how it compares to the Lyman.

 

[Corben1]

One and the same, Tom. Noel and Pete wandered through Greenup on their way to Ariz. Noel wanted to sell and I was ready to buy.

Noel simply didn't have the patience to set it up. Also had a Gunderson that he understood well.

I made slight mods to the Prometheus to allow for AC power of the trickler and a very small paging (eccentric) motor to the dump/initial measure stroke. This small motor being initiated by a small mercury switch epoxied to the measure drum. The fear being that the powder could bridge on dumping and could not be seen easily. With the vibrating motor engaged, it removed the powder from the dump funnel like it had a vacuum attached.

A great measure. Sorry for the dust...........Looks like a Rube Goldberg arrangement, but it works!

 

[redman]

This may help answer the accuracy question, I did this earlier this year to get an idea of how accurate my Chargemaster was. The target wt is 42gn for IMR 4895 and 49gn for RL-19. You can decide if the accuracy here meets your needs.

roberti,

Excellent experimentation. I have a question: would you re-dispense with the ChageMaster if it went over? I mentioned this earlier: whenever I dispense a charge and the ChargeMaster beeps that it's done, I'll leave it on until the count clears and the true load is displayed. If it's over, I'd redispense; did your experiment follow this protocol? Or would you just measure whatever load came out the first time?

Thanks

 

[roberti11]

roberti,

Excellent experimentation. I have a question: would you re-dispense with the ChageMaster if it went over? I mentioned this earlier: whenever I dispense a charge and the ChargeMaster beeps that it's done, I'll leave it on until the count clears and the true load is displayed. If it's over, I'd redispense; did your experiment follow this protocol? Or would you just measure whatever load came out the first time?

Thanks

For the sake of this experiment I weighed each load as it came off the chargeMaster and recorded it, I did not re-dispense it.

When I am making match loads, I do not wait for the scale on the charge master to read the wt, after the beep I dump in on the acculab and adjust it there while the chargemaster dispenses another load.

 

[LongDraw]

I have the Acculab. I throw with a redding, and trickle with a little teaspoon. I will load circles around the RCBS unit, all to within .03 of a grain, one kernel of Varget!

 

[redman]

For the sake of this experiment I weighed each load as it came off the chargeMaster and recorded it, I did not re-dispense it.

When I am making match loads, I do not wait for the scale on the charge master to read the wt, after the beep I dump in on the acculab and adjust it there while the chargemaster dispenses another load.

Well, if you ever have the patience to do it again (maybe with a smaller sampling), do let me know - I'd be very curious! Thanks

 

[LloydM]

Someone tell me more about the Acculab scale. I use one and once in a while it will get fritzy and the reading will sart to climb or fall on its own. Is that how fluorescent light or phones affects it? What can I do to prevent this?

 

[maynard]

Someone tell me more about the Acculab scale. I use one and once in a while it will get fritzy and the reading will sart to climb or fall on its own. Is that how fluorescent light or phones affects it? What can I do to prevent this?

I bought mine from Sinclair's. The sales guys at Camp Perry both told me they used them and it is best to turn them on a day before you use it. They also told me if I had and questions or problems to give them a call. So far zero problems but did notice if I didn't turn it on the day before the readings would climb. I just keep hitting the "zero" button every time it starts to climb.

 

[Blygy]

. Now this barrel does seem quite forgiving as all charges between 49.0 and 50.2 grouped well under and inch with 49.6 doing three shots under 0.15 MOA CTC. I have to do some more development at 300 or 400 yards.

Now I say that I am happy with it thus far. I will continue to use it for the 260AI and the Edge that is in the process of being built as it uses enough powder that the error, if any, in the dispencing will be a small percentage.

Well just a little update on this.. I ran out some loads with the DSP and ran some 400 yard targets... Disappointing to say the least... 8 shot groups scored just under 1 MOA.. I am now using the DSP to dispense a charge .1 grains light and weighing it on my new Jennings Mack 20 scale I bought for just under $140.

Sometimes I still have to remove powder from the pan even dispensing 0.1gr light..

So now I have 20 rounds loaded weighing the charges with the Jennings...

Hopefully I can get out in the next day or two and see if it helps tighten the groups up some..

I will post results when I get a chance to run the rounds down the bore...