I think we need to make a large push to make sure that if a cabinet shuffle takes place, the new SRD minister is crystal clear, come the next AFGA conference, exactly what we want, and what we won't put up with in any form.
Interesting thoughts on RAMP
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I think we need to make a large push to make sure that if a cabinet shuffle takes place, the new SRD minister is crystal clear, come the next AFGA conference, exactly what we want, and what we won't put up with in any form.
We?
Your very recent adoption of a position that I(and many others) have been stating for a couple of years now, would indicate that you cannot form opinions UNTIL what is obvious (to pretty much everyone else)has come to fruition. Again, better late than never but it does raise serious questions about your ability to make up your mind at a time when such traits are rather important.
I still am looking at RAMP and I still am saying it is bad idea. Again, another blatantly obvious point you are unable to process.
Now I realise, that as a concerned ALbertan you want to participate in this discussion but if you actually ARE concerned about the RAMP program, you would support ANY information that not only inspires further discussion but you would also support ANY tactic that leads to the end of this(RAMP) program. On the other hand we have this:
How does anyone assess how well run a program is or how "slick" it is after a few personal observations? You aren't involved in the administration or implementation of RAMP so you my want to stop cheerleading how it is working until after some real data is made public.
I think we all understand the political pressure angle - given we have played that game before....
This is great example of why you need all of the background information - when one of the guys I know applied pressure to his MLA in opposition to Open Spaces, his MLA said he was unaware of it. My buddy asked him how he could be unaware since he had sat on the cabinet policy committee, and had voted in favour of it. Talk about lighting a fire.....
If there ever were a perfect storm of political and economic conditions to defeat something like this.....
To my way of thinking it is of utmost importance to remember what the original intent of the O/S program was. Without it a simple little program like RAMP that was spun off O/S can be wedged into the door so that the door can be kicked in later (conspiracy maybe but if no other sinister reason than downloading to the private sector). The environment that surrounded Open Spaces was one of secrecy and passive inclusion that made it look like all sportsmen in the province where both informed by the inclusion of their various organizations and in favour of it.
To find out the motivation of some of these organizations to have actually sat on the Working Group should still be on everyone’s mind because in spite of the rhetoric of conspiracies there has never been an acceptable answer as to why many of these organizations where at the Working Group Table and never informed their membership. Does this help stop RAMP right now; in some aspects I believe it can because for one AFGA has got to become a loud and constant drone in Morton’s ear. Regardless of Morton’s belief that AFGA has got their priorities wrong on this topic those people that Morton feels he is helping and that have rejected the program have shown little evidence of actually standing up to him to show him the error in his ways.
If we are to solve this as hunters AFGA has got to be told to get off their asses and start to do something about this.
To find out the motivation of some of these organizations to have actually sat on the Working Group should still be on everyone’s mind because in spite of the rhetoric of conspiracies there has never been an acceptable answer as to why many of these organizations where at the Working Group Table and never informed their membership. Does this help stop RAMP right now; in some aspects I believe it can because for one AFGA has got to become a loud and constant drone in Morton’s ear. Regardless of Morton’s belief that AFGA has got their priorities wrong on this topic those people that Morton feels he is helping and that have rejected the program have shown little evidence of actually standing up to him to show him the error in his ways.
If we are to solve this as hunters AFGA has got to be told to get off their asses and start to do something about this.
Is this a matter of public record? If so, can you point me to it? I haven't heard or seen Morton go on the public record with that statement, but if he did, that's a big deal for all of us fighting this.
One can only hope.
I agree that if there is a shuffle, there will never be a better time to bring the political heat on RAMP and whoever ends up being the new SRD minister. IMHO, it needs to be loud, come from as many angles as possible, and be fully backed by the AFGA if it's going to be heard. At the risk of being labeled one of the "tinhat crowd" it's my belief that wherever Morton lands, he'll continue to ride shotgun and be involved on this issue, he's too personally invested in it to simply let it die at this point IMHO.
Waxy
Not disagreeing with you but I heard him subsequently say that it was scrapped.
I heard Ted said some things too. Unfortunately becuase it would qualify as heresay, there is no point in trying to incorporate it into this discussion.
I should add though that it is the complete opposite of what you "heard Ted say". For what ever that is worth.
Is the fact he said it was shelved a matter of public record? If so, can you point me to it?
My point being that few things are matters of public record unless said in the legislature.
I clearly remember him saying that "he might be dumb but he wasn't stupid" and then he went on to say that HFH was gone forever.
No more heresay than he said it was shelved. So what's the point of incorporating that into this discussion?
Sure it is, it was stated in a public speech at the AFGA conference, and if proper minutes were taken, was recorded for all to see. I'm not sure how one would access those minutes, but I assume they are available. At the very least, there were a whole lot of people there who would corroborate exactly what was said. That's not heresay...
Not to attack you personally, because that's not the point here, I'm trying to nail down whether or not this can be legitimately verified so Morton can be held to it.
When was this stated? Where? Who was present at the time?
Waxy
It's totally hearsay....yikes
What I stated was in a magazine article so I guess it is a matter of public record. You said you read the article and it was well written.
As for minutes, I think you are confusing a transcript with minutes. Minutes encapsulate what happened at a meeting and a transcript is what is taken in the legislature or court, and records every word. I doubt anyone was transcribing Ted's speech at the AFGA convention....
And regardless of all this he said/she said...RAMP is on the table and HFH isn't, that is a matter of public record so maybe best to focus on the real issue.....
To illustrate that heresay has no place in this discussion of course. You should probably avoid trying to make your points on information that cannot actually be verified.
Ramp is well run
Ted said this to me
etc etc
Good. It's nice to have it writing somewhere, just in case.
It's totally hearsay....yikes
As for minutes, I think you are confusing a transcript with minutes. Minutes encapsulate what happened at a meeting and a transcript is what is taken in the legislature or court, and records every word. I doubt anyone was transcribing Ted's speech at the AFGA convention....
My but we're arrogant aren't we. Thanks for the lesson.
The Minister's speech was in direct response to very important motions being presented at the conference, and if "minutes", or notes, or whatever is that you want to call them were not taken on his response to such a critical issue, then shame on the AFGA.
I'm pretty sure that this example of "totally heresay" as you so eloquently put it, would be enough to convict in any court. We don't need someone to write "fire" on a cue card in a crowded theatre to be convicted, only to be directly witnessed by enough people that will swear to that person saying it in a court of law. I believe it's called eye witness testimony, and it's pretty solid as far as I know...
Waxy
We can all agree, that regardless of what Ted is saying "on the record", as our SRD minister he has clearly shown that he is intellectually pre-disposed to the concept of paid hunting. As is evidenced in the original OS/Ramp proposal.
Good. It's nice to have it writing somewhere, just in case.
My but we're arrogant aren't we. Thanks for the lesson.
The Minister's speech was in direct response to very important motions being presented at the conference, and if "minutes", or notes, or whatever is that you want to call them were not taken on his response to such a critical issue, then shame on the AFGA.
I'm pretty sure that this example of "totally heresay" as you so eloquently put it, would be enough to convict in any court. We don't need someone to write "fire" on a cue card in a crowded theatre to be convicted, only to be directly witnessed by enough people that will swear to that person saying it in a court of law. I believe it's called eye witness testimony, and it's pretty solid as far as I know...
Waxy
So he said it was shelved and then went onto to say that he might be dumb but he wasn't stupid and that HFH was gone forever. That's what I've been saying from the begining. Once again, the fact is, RAMP is on the table at this very second and HFH isn't. I don't need to worry about the possibility of HFH rearing its head again to make me opposed to RAMP.
Good for you!
But who placed you in charge of deciding how or why OTHER people choose to oppose it?
For those of us who truly want to see an end to this thing(RAMP), the method or mechanism of it's detruction is irrelevant. We need as many people involved as possible, moving towards the same goal. We don't need a self-appointed leader telling us which route to take if we all know where we want to end up.
Not trying to be a leader or in charge of anything. I'm trying to offer some constructive input on a public messageboard. I just hate seeing the real issue derailed continually. I'm just a passionate Alberta outdoorsman.
And that's all I've been trying to verify...
Your unneccessarily arrogant and condescending posts aside, I think I'm now comfortable with the issue and what we have to work with regarding Morton's stance on HFH.
Waxy
No arrogance at all....I just thought by your comments that you misunderstood the function of a secretary recording minutes. I also thought by your comments that you'd actually heard Ted utter those words...sorry for the confusion. I took very careful notes and can assure you that he said HFH was gone forever at the AFGA convention. I'd heard the "shelved" quote earlier and was very careful to listen to his exact words when he spoke about it again.
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