Note to self, never make more than 10-20rds per load for testing new bullet

john777

john777

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I made 300rds in total, various loads. Only big problem is 200rds were just two loads. They're no good and I got carried away with my Dillon 650. I just couldn't believe the awsome speed even when I'm going slow.

I need to pull ~250rds of ammo.

Hammer paid itself off a few times already. LOL
 
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I have had to tell more than 1 individual this same thing. I usually load 15 of each and put 3, 5 shot groups of each load. Take the best one and compare with the best of the others. Usually I will load about 10 different loads with different powder charges. I then find the best 3-5 loads(sometimes not much difference in groupings). I will then take these 3-5 and start playing with overall length and crimp. Usually I can use up a box of 500 finding the best possible loads, but I have fun doing it. I dont know how good this method is but it has worked for me. sometimes I will do all of this in a day. It is nice to live 2 minutes from an indoor bullseye range. I can make as many trips as I like.
 
Here's my brief load story.

I'm using plated Frontier 9mm 124gn FP. So far, I find that 4.2gn of W231 @ 1.092" worked the best out of my 7+ different loads. Best is relative. It never locked slide and I got lots of stove pipes and whatever. 1.010 is a little worse. 4.2gn @ 1.135, the brass doesn't even eject. It just stays in the chamber. LOL! I dunno about you guys, but 4.2gn feels about 75% of factory american eagles.

I'm going to try and take it down to 1.080" at 4.0gn and see how that goes. If it works alright, I'll do 4.2gr.

At least my P220 Classic is doing quite good. I'm using the supposedly worse ammo out there. Remington Thunderbolts. I get some failures but it's good enough. Thunderbolts are pretty smokey too.

Reason why I want to do 10-20 per load is that I can still get my jollies even if I get all sorts of FTE, stove pipes, etc. I live too far away from range only to fire a few dozen rounds. :)
 
Load out to around 1.120 and try again. I'm assuming you are not chronographing. You may have to creep the powder up to 4.4-4.5 before it will be 100% reliable.
 
Canuck223 said:
Load out to around 1.120 and try again. I'm assuming you are not chronographing. You may have to creep the powder up to 4.4-4.5 before it will be 100% reliable.
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Stupid question. If I find a sweet spot at 1.080, say 4gn, but need 4.4 @ 1.120. What's the difference besides using less powder? It should 'feel' the same but accuracy would be different, correct?

I've done lots of readings, but nothing too concrete. Someone says their gun liked OAL of 1.080. I don't remember the load. I have to look at my notes. It sounds like these flat points do good at shorter OAL. But my Lyman manual not helping me much and the closet thing to compare is the 125gr. JHP, 1.075 using W231 between 3.9-4.4.

No chronograph.

BTW, I have not exceeded 4.2 yet.
 
I load three cartridges with each powder charge for three powder charges for a total of nine rounds with each powder/bullet combination.I judge which powder/bullet combination shows the most potential based on all three groups,never on one group,since flukes do happen.I then fine tune the most promising bullet/powder combination( both if two show similar potential) by varying powder charges and seating depths.I usually arrive at my final load in anywhere from 50 to 75 rounds.
 
Electroplated bullets offer less resistance to engraving by the barrel, so they tend to behave more like cast lead than jacketed. In most loadings, they can take a powder charge hotter than jacketed.

OAL is important, and you are right, the blunt tipped flat point or hollow point bullets do tend to be loaded shorter. 9mm is limited to 1.169 and most factory ammo is shorter, usually between 1.100 and 1.125. Run it too short, and you risk having the round tip south during feeding, causing a jam. Run it too long, and it can stall on the feedramp, not having gained enough speed prior to hitting it.

If you shoot on an outdoor range, I have a chrony you may borrow.
 
Canuck223 said:
Electroplated bullets offer less resistance to engraving by the barrel, so they tend to behave more like cast lead than jacketed. In most loadings, they can take a powder charge hotter than jacketed.

OAL is important, and you are right, the blunt tipped flat point or hollow point bullets do tend to be loaded shorter. 9mm is limited to 1.169 and most factory ammo is shorter, usually between 1.100 and 1.125. Run it too short, and you risk having the round tip south during feeding, causing a jam. Run it too long, and it can stall on the feedramp, not having gained enough speed prior to hitting it.

If you shoot on an outdoor range, I have a chrony you may borrow.
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Thanks for the tips Canuck! Unfortunately, I'm shooting at in indoor range (The Grange). I must have spent 2+ hrs at the range today and blasted 250rds of .22lr. I'm not sure if it was the .22lr or my hand loads (but I didn't shoot many hand loads - maybe about 50rds), I got some black snot when I blew my nose. Let the lead poisoning begin.

I wish I brought more .22lr! I ran out. I still didn't get my jollies. Been on shooting hiatus for way too long. I'll likely go back to the range tomorrow and test new loads.
 
Ganderite said:
Instead of pulling the bullets, buy another 9mm. maybe it will work in the new gun....
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LOL!

My next handgun will be a S&W 629. No more 9mm in the future. I like my Sig P226. I just fired the new gun today along with P220 classic which I will buy X-changer 45ACP kit, hopefully early next year.
 
I load my 9mm to 1.100 oal with 4.0 gr W231, I just started reloading and its what I started with, they function all 4 of my 9mm and are accurate to boot, I am using a aim 124gr jacketed bullet...I have loaded about 700 of them and shot about 350 or them in the last few weeks, no failures of any kind, maybe give it a try...:D
 
JOJOPINTO said:
I load my 9mm to 1.100 oal with 4.0 gr W231, I just started reloading and its what I started with, they function all 4 of my 9mm and are accurate to boot, I am using a aim 124gr jacketed bullet...I have loaded about 700 of them and shot about 350 or them in the last few weeks, no failures of any kind, maybe give it a try...:D
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I wanted to buy Aim, but the place sold out of Aim and only had Frontier. So I am now stuck with 2k of bullets with not concrete data on the net.

I don't get. I'm doing 4.2gr @ 1.092 and it stove pipes with my brand new Sig. Oh well... I guess I'll keep working up the loads and play around with seating depth, but I don't want to go under 1.090. I think 1.085 is minimum. That seats the bullet in 0.20" which is same seating depth of American Eagle FMJ.
 
I load my Frontier 124gr 9mm bullets (FP-CMJ) with 4.3gr of Unique at 1.080 OAL. I use the same amount of powder with cast bullets LRN but the OAL is 1.10. With both I am getting around 1050 fps average and about the same accuracy.

I found that if I was under 3.8gr of powder I had a few FTE (stove pipes). This was due to the fact that the slide was not moving fully to the rear so the next round would some times not chamber or not eject the previous round or both.

Sounds like that is the problem you are having...... But my manuals all say that 4.0gr of 231 is in the middle as opposed to under the reccomended start data, so you should be getting enough movement with the slide.

I also found that when loaded 'light' it was a bit smokier (with the cast) and that I had alot of carbon on my brass as well. Is this something you are experiancing?

I tried w-231 when testing powders for my pistols, but I was unable to get any kind of a decent grouping with it, so I stopped trying with it.

If you are getting good groups, showing no other signs of under pressure (smokie brass, etc)..... the only problem you are experiancing is the odd stove pipe.... this may all be an extractor problem or recoil spring problem, as opposed to a 'load' problem.

Cheers!
 
john777 said:
I made 300rds in total, various loads. Only big problem is 200rds were just two loads. They're no good and I got carried away with my Dillon 650. I just couldn't believe the awsome speed even when I'm going slow.

I need to pull ~250rds of ammo.

Hammer paid itself off a few times already. LOL
Click to expand...

Heres a little tip that I learned after 40 years of reloading. Buy yourself a school scribler and document your loads. I list powder type,powder charge,bullet type and weight ,primer brand and range conditions when I did the testing. I usually list the date ,amount of rounds loaded,fired and any problems that occur including split necks,primer setback,hard extraction,etc. This makes a good reference when loading in the future. You may use it when loading for a new gun and you have a starting point for loads that worked well before and ones that didn't.
 
Canuck223 said:
Electroplated bullets offer less resistance to engraving by the barrel, so they tend to behave more like cast lead than jacketed. In most loadings, they can take a powder charge hotter than jacketed.

OAL is important, and you are right, the blunt tipped flat point or hollow point bullets do tend to be loaded shorter. 9mm is limited to 1.169 and most factory ammo is shorter, usually between 1.100 and 1.125. Run it too short, and you risk having the round tip south during feeding, causing a jam. Run it too long, and it can stall on the feedramp, not having gained enough speed prior to hitting it.

If you shoot on an outdoor range, I have a chrony you may borrow.
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Excellent advice. I wanted to add one comment re: the OAL important part, it's not just important to reliability, it's important to accuracy in a 9mm.

Every manufacturer has different chamber depths. The amount of space that your round has to jump from firing to engaging the rifling varies (due to the profile of the bullet), so as a reloader (or a factory ammo buyer) you get to find out what works best.
 
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