I've got several Classics, some factory some custom. All shoot really well. Shot Rems for years, they're fine for other people, nothing bad to say about them other than the only extracter I've had fail was on a Rem. As for jamming CRF guns, work hard enough at anything and you can make it happen.
Remington 700 vs Winchester 70
- Thread starter HKMark23
- Start date
- Location
- Ontariariario
I like them both, but sadly don't own either.
I have shot both quite a bit though.(not the new incarnation of the Win. they were mostly the OLD ones)
My father and friends have owned several examples of each.
The only CRF problem I've ever had was when I dropped a round into the chamber and then tried to close the bolt.Thats a no no apparently as the extractor wont clear the cartridge head?
I have noticed with my hunting friends and relatives that the Remington firearms aren't finished as durable as Winchesters stuff.
In hunting camp the Remington owners were always having to clean & oil the exterior parts of their firearms or they would be rusted overnight.
The several guys with Winchesters never oiled their guns and at the end of the week, no rust was evident?
Just my experiences, YMMV
Eric
I have shot both quite a bit though.(not the new incarnation of the Win. they were mostly the OLD ones)
My father and friends have owned several examples of each.
The only CRF problem I've ever had was when I dropped a round into the chamber and then tried to close the bolt.Thats a no no apparently as the extractor wont clear the cartridge head?
I have noticed with my hunting friends and relatives that the Remington firearms aren't finished as durable as Winchesters stuff.
In hunting camp the Remington owners were always having to clean & oil the exterior parts of their firearms or they would be rusted overnight.
The several guys with Winchesters never oiled their guns and at the end of the week, no rust was evident?
Just my experiences, YMMV
Eric
I have both. Rem 700 mtn rifle06, likes,- light weight-fastest lock time, dislike bolt not locking and prefer crf over pushfeed but that said never a problem with either.
Winchester mdl 70 supergrade 7mm,- likes,- bolt locks down,- 3 position safety, simple trigger mechanism, crf. No negatives for me.
Both are shooters.
Winchester mdl 70 supergrade 7mm,- likes,- bolt locks down,- 3 position safety, simple trigger mechanism, crf. No negatives for me.
Both are shooters.
Get a Savage Model 110, 112, 116..............25% less money & 200% more gun than anything Big Green or Winchester make.
The accuracy of the new Savage bolt actions "out of the box" has to be seen to be believed.
The Ruger 77s are the toughest bolt rifles one GUNNUT ever told another GUNNUT about bar none and are as accurate (if not more so) as a 70 or a 700 now that Ruger finally after 30 years of unexplained & perplexing obstinacy decided to improve its stock trigger assemblies.
I used to automatically add $100 to the cost of an off the rack Ruger for a Timney replacement of the standard "stiff as a fence post" trigger but now gladly that is not the case & the newest Rugers have really decent factory triggers.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
pricedo;3839293The day I can afford to go on an African safari will be the same day I can afford a Merkel or H&H double rifle in one of the traditional big bore calibers & I'll by-pass the bolt actions altogether. [B said:
Wrong. I've been once (RSA) and am going again next summer (Zim). I'm far from being independently wealthy or a 6/49 winner. Africa is surprisingly affordable for even common-folk like myself, Dogleg, back40sniper, A-Zone, and others. But I digress...
I won't forget how crappy that Model 70 in .375 H&H Mag. I bought in 1974 was..............it was a piece of shyt.
When the Classics came out it was like steppign back in time and undoing a massive wrong. Just like deleting 1964 from history. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
And there it is folks. Its not about how thick your wallet is, it is about how badly you want to go, and what life choices you are willing to make orr to get there. If it matters you can do it, and do it more than once. I see a lot more new pick-ups than I do trophy rooms with buffalo heads. But this is supposed to be about rifles, so when you make the pilgrimage, take along a .375 M-70.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
If I had the coin, and I don't, It would be a model 70 with the detachable mag, in 338WM.
I've had Remingtons dumping their ammo when carried on the sling while I carried them for a couple of guys during a deer drag. The bolts flipped open, and I was fishing in the leaves in the rain for ammo. Not impressed.
Then there is (IMO) Remington's horrible history when it comes to safeties in general, but that's another issue.
I've had Remingtons dumping their ammo when carried on the sling while I carried them for a couple of guys during a deer drag. The bolts flipped open, and I was fishing in the leaves in the rain for ammo. Not impressed.
Then there is (IMO) Remington's horrible history when it comes to safeties in general, but that's another issue.
I have to agree here. My LTR is more accurate off the bench, but after taking my buck this year on the first hunt with my new feather weight I have every confidence in it as a hunting rig. It handles great feeds smooth and flawlessly just feels better in my hands than either of my remmys, or my old cz 550 for that matter.
mike shickele
Regular
When the Classics came out it was like steppign back in time and undoing a massive wrong. Just like deleting 1964 from history. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.[/QUOTE]
I disagree. I handled a model 70 classic in kamloops a few years ago; it was a fetherweight in 308win i believe. Just about bought it until I noticed a riple in the barrel left over from machining..........if they left that on the outside, what did they leave on the inside?
Mike
I disagree. I handled a model 70 classic in kamloops a few years ago; it was a fetherweight in 308win i believe. Just about bought it until I noticed a riple in the barrel left over from machining..........if they left that on the outside, what did they leave on the inside?
Mike
Same cheap quality, slam bang workmanship that turned me off the post 64 Model 70's.
Obviously the quality control inspector was asleep on the job (or more likely didn't exist) when this rifle came off the assembly tables.
Solution: Get a Savage.
A-bolt Brownings!
I disagree. I handled a model 70 classic in kamloops a few years ago; it was a fetherweight in 308win i believe. Just about bought it until I noticed a riple in the barrel left over from machining..........if they left that on the outside, what did they leave on the inside?
Mike[/QUOTE]
Inside would be smooth as silk probably. These are hammer forged barrels. "Snake skinning" on the outside of the barrel is a natural part of that process, however, this is usually removed when they turn and de-stress the barrel.
Mike[/QUOTE]
Inside would be smooth as silk probably. These are hammer forged barrels. "Snake skinning" on the outside of the barrel is a natural part of that process, however, this is usually removed when they turn and de-stress the barrel.
Unless of course ..........it isn't??
The real "Snake skinning" took place when Winchester was bought out in the early 1960's & the new company tried to high grade the previously good Winchester name by dumping a bunch of shytty, substandard guns onto the market.
I'm sure somebody(s) pocketed a few dollars destroying the good reputation of an American historical landmark company by selling an inferior product stamped "Winchester Model 70".
Many of those buyers like me never forgave them for it.
Takes years to build a good name & an instant to lose it.
Reputations....... like arms, legs or eyes ........once gone don't grow back.
You'll NEVER see a Winchester Model 70 made after 1964 in my gun safes or in the gun boot of my ATV..........NEVER!!.........I just don't trust 'em anymore.
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Unless of course ..........it isn't??
The real "Snake skinning" took place when Winchester was bought out in the early 1960's & the new company tried to high grade the previously good Winchester name by dumping a bunch of shytty, substandard guns onto the market.
I'm sure somebody(s) pocketed a few dollars destroying the good reputation of an American historical landmark company by selling an inferior product stamped "Winchester Model 70".
Many of those buyers like me never forgave them for it.
Takes years to build a good name & an instant to lose it.
Reputations....... like arms, legs or eyes ........once gone don't grow back.
You'll NEVER see a Winchester Model 70 made after 1964 in my gun safes or in the gun boot of my ATV..........NEVER!!.........I just don't trust 'em anymore.[/QUOTE]
Not to rub salt into your Winchesters Pricedo, but was there not even a warranty claim available to you ? An article in October's Shooting Times features the 70 and lauds its "American" FNM manufacture.
This is a beautiful looking rifle and I want to own one, but you're ####ing it up for me
.Will the real Rifleman's Rifle please stand up.
Got a REAL (like in not an impostor) Rifleman's Rifle ........a pre 1964 Model 70 in .300 H&H Mag. in my gun safe that needs seriously gusty winds to make a 5 shot group expand beyond 3/4".
She's topped by a Redfield "Widefield" 3-9x scope.......I always liked Redfield optics.
The old girls almost as old as I am & still kicking serious azz at the range.
Better box up your newfangled pseudo Model 70's or get ready to be put to shame when I unbox that venerable old .300 H&H.
It still looks like a million bucks & the action is as smooth as butter.
Unless of course ..........it isn't??
The real "Snake skinning" took place when Winchester was bought out in the early 1960's & the new company tried to high grade the previously good Winchester name by dumping a bunch of shytty, substandard guns onto the market.
I'm sure somebody(s) pocketed a few dollars destroying the good reputation of an American historical landmark company by selling an inferior product stamped "Winchester Model 70".
Many of those buyers like me never forgave them for it.
Takes years to build a good name & an instant to lose it.
Reputations....... like arms, legs or eyes ........once gone don't grow back.
You'll NEVER see a Winchester Model 70 made after 1964 in my gun safes or in the gun boot of my ATV..........NEVER!!.........I just don't trust 'em anymore.
Not to rub salt into your Winchesters Pricedo, but was there not even a warranty claim available to you ? An article in October's Shooting Times features the 70 and lauds its "American" FNM manufacture.
This is a beautiful looking rifle and I want to own one, but you're f**king it up for me
Got a REAL (like in not an impostor) Rifleman's Rifle ........a pre 1964 Model 70 in .300 H&H Mag. in my gun safe that needs seriously gusty winds to make a 5 shot group expand beyond 3/4".
She's topped by a Redfield "Widefield" 3-9x scope.......I always liked Redfield optics.
The old girls almost as old as I am & still kicking serious azz at the range.
Better box up your newfangled pseudo Model 70's or get ready to be put to shame when I unbox that venerable old .300 H&H.
It still looks like a million bucks & the action is as smooth as butter.
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I've been using pre-64 M 70's for a long time, and have quite a nice collection in quite a few calibers. My favorite going hunting rifle was my pre-64 M 70 in 300 H&H. Damn, it is one accurate rifle. Stopped using it because of the rarity and it's value I personally place on it, and it's still in excellent shape despite the use I gave it.
My main hunting rifle, know, is a 1951, M70 in 30-06. Back-up rifle is a pre-64 M70 Featherweight in 308. Both are super accurate. The reason I enjoy using them is: 1. the control round feeding 2. three- position safety 3. the stock design and the wide butt is a pure pleasure to shoot. Just like riding a fine horse. 4. I appreciate and admire the simplicity of design and the hands on quality of manufacture. 5. They're a damn fine looking rifle as well. Much like a fine looking woman that knows how to please you. There's more reasons, but this enough, don't want to over kill. .
If I were to buy a new one, it would be the new M70 Classic. The reason I would consider a new one would be for a stainless version with a plastic stock. This way I could take it after sheep and not worry over scratching up a pre-64 stock the stainless would be easier to hunt with in severe wet climates.
I'm not saying anything against the Remington, because they are also a fine rifle. But in buying a new rifle, it would be the M70 classic.
My main hunting rifle, know, is a 1951, M70 in 30-06. Back-up rifle is a pre-64 M70 Featherweight in 308. Both are super accurate. The reason I enjoy using them is: 1. the control round feeding 2. three- position safety 3. the stock design and the wide butt is a pure pleasure to shoot. Just like riding a fine horse. 4. I appreciate and admire the simplicity of design and the hands on quality of manufacture. 5. They're a damn fine looking rifle as well. Much like a fine looking woman that knows how to please you. There's more reasons, but this enough, don't want to over kill. .
If I were to buy a new one, it would be the new M70 Classic. The reason I would consider a new one would be for a stainless version with a plastic stock. This way I could take it after sheep and not worry over scratching up a pre-64 stock the stainless would be easier to hunt with in severe wet climates.
I'm not saying anything against the Remington, because they are also a fine rifle. But in buying a new rifle, it would be the M70 classic.
I've been using pre-64 M 70's for a long time, and have quite a nice collection in quite a few calibers. My favorite going hunting rifle was my pre-64 M 70 in 300 H&H. Damn, it is one accurate rifle. Stopped using it because of the rarity and it's value I personally place on it, and it's still in excellent shape despite the use I gave it.
My main hunting rifle, know, is a 1951, M70 in 30-06. Back-up rifle is a pre-64 M70 Featherweight in 308. Both are super accurate. The reason I enjoy using them is: 1. the control round feeding 2. three- position safety 3. the stock design and the wide butt is a pure pleasure to shoot. Just like riding a fine horse. 4. I appreciate and admire the simplicity of design and the hands on quality of manufacture. 5. They're a damn fine looking rifle as well. Much like a fine looking woman that knows how to please you. There's more reasons, but this enough, don't want to over kill. .
If I were to buy a new one, it would be the new M70 Classic. The reason I would consider a new one would be for a stainless version with a plastic stock. This way I could take it after sheep and not worry over scratching up a pre-64 stock the stainless would be easier to hunt with in severe wet climates.
I'm not saying anything against the Remington, because they are also a fine rifle. But in buying a new rifle, it would be the M70 classic.
I've been reading the range assessments for the "new" model 70's.
I'm not impressed & the phrases "so-so", "nothing to write home about", "hum-drum", came immediately to mind.
The more paper a rifle leaves in the "10-ring" (bulls-eye) the less I respect it in the morning......that's the bottom line.
If the individual TL&C goes into a rifle during manufacturing it will show on paper at the range........judging from what I'm reading..............it ain't.
As far as I'm concerned they (and who are these people anyway?......certainly not the old Winchester Company) stopped making real Model 70's in 1964.
My Savage Model 116 bolt "acts" more like an "old" Winchester 70 (the ones that could shoot) than the "new" so-called Winchester 70's do.
Might be an idea to buy a couple of Mod. 70s and try them out for yourself rather than repeating what you've read. I've owned dozens of pre-64s over the years and currently have a few Classics. If you think your Savage is nicer than a Mod. 70 great, more for me but not all would agree. Oh ya, again mine all shoot. Haveing said all that, my guns aren't the most current ones. Mine are mostly from the mid to late 90's. My 416 Safari Express is probably the newest and it's fit and finish are very good. I haven't shot it a great deal yet but so far it's very accurate.
If one wants to accumulate as much misinformation as possible, this thread would be a good place to start.
I find it fascinating that Winchester is slammed for using aluminum for it's trigger guard (and don't get me wrong; it sucks!) when Remington has never offered anything else.
The Remington action is simpler, cheaper, and easier to work with than is a Model 70. I have always felt that a 700 was a better choice as the basis of an accurate rifle. In spite of this, I have a few very good shooting Winchesters.
Remington 700's have the edge over the Winchesters in that they never suffered the kind of drastic cost cutting which hurt the Model 70 so much in 1964. The 1964 Remington 700, while it wasn't a great deal classier than the 1964 Model 70, was enough better that it would have to get the nod. From that point forward, both brands made actual improvements to their rifles with little in the way of cost cutting. I still felt Remington was little bit ahead up until the production of the Classic Model 70. It wasn't a pre-64 but it wasn't bad.
The latest Model 70 , contrary to what some would have you believe , is substantially changed and I would have to say, improved, over the Classics as produced in New Haven.
The trigger is new. Although some will call it sacrilege, I think it is also better than the old trigger design. It doesn't lift the rear of the bolt with the sear. It is more compact and requires the removal of less wood to inlet. It leaves enough usable bedding surface at the middle screw location that the center screw can actually be used as a part of the bedding system (providing you retrofit two piece bottom metal or drill the one piece guard).
The bolt sleeve is new. It features a substantial flange behind the bolt stop location to deflect gas which may travel down the left raceway. The bolt sleeve fits into the rear of the bolt using vee threads instead of the square threads of the prior models. The bolt sleeve fit the bolt body much better.
The striker assembly is lighter and the striker spring is shorter and stiffer. This will decrease locktime. The machining of the bolt lugs and bolt face is much better than previously found.
The receiver, while it looks much the same, has also been changed somewhat. The threads are larger in diameter to provide a thicker chamber wall and the threads are now complete rather than being interupted as in the post-64 models. Surfaces are better finished and the new receivers have lines which were blurred and rounded off before.
So, at this point, I think the Model 70 has the edge over the 700 in the quality and features department. I still think the Remington is the best action for a varmint rifle but would favour the Model 70 as a hunting rifle action.
By the way, the model 70 is often described as being most like a Mauser. It has two locking lugs and a long extractor. That about wraps it up. Regards, Bill
I find it fascinating that Winchester is slammed for using aluminum for it's trigger guard (and don't get me wrong; it sucks!) when Remington has never offered anything else.
The Remington action is simpler, cheaper, and easier to work with than is a Model 70. I have always felt that a 700 was a better choice as the basis of an accurate rifle. In spite of this, I have a few very good shooting Winchesters.
Remington 700's have the edge over the Winchesters in that they never suffered the kind of drastic cost cutting which hurt the Model 70 so much in 1964. The 1964 Remington 700, while it wasn't a great deal classier than the 1964 Model 70, was enough better that it would have to get the nod. From that point forward, both brands made actual improvements to their rifles with little in the way of cost cutting. I still felt Remington was little bit ahead up until the production of the Classic Model 70. It wasn't a pre-64 but it wasn't bad.
The latest Model 70 , contrary to what some would have you believe , is substantially changed and I would have to say, improved, over the Classics as produced in New Haven.
The trigger is new. Although some will call it sacrilege, I think it is also better than the old trigger design. It doesn't lift the rear of the bolt with the sear. It is more compact and requires the removal of less wood to inlet. It leaves enough usable bedding surface at the middle screw location that the center screw can actually be used as a part of the bedding system (providing you retrofit two piece bottom metal or drill the one piece guard).
The bolt sleeve is new. It features a substantial flange behind the bolt stop location to deflect gas which may travel down the left raceway. The bolt sleeve fits into the rear of the bolt using vee threads instead of the square threads of the prior models. The bolt sleeve fit the bolt body much better.
The striker assembly is lighter and the striker spring is shorter and stiffer. This will decrease locktime. The machining of the bolt lugs and bolt face is much better than previously found.
The receiver, while it looks much the same, has also been changed somewhat. The threads are larger in diameter to provide a thicker chamber wall and the threads are now complete rather than being interupted as in the post-64 models. Surfaces are better finished and the new receivers have lines which were blurred and rounded off before.
So, at this point, I think the Model 70 has the edge over the 700 in the quality and features department. I still think the Remington is the best action for a varmint rifle but would favour the Model 70 as a hunting rifle action.
By the way, the model 70 is often described as being most like a Mauser. It has two locking lugs and a long extractor. That about wraps it up. Regards, Bill
