March of german prisoners in Moscow

Well, unlike the germans, Napoleon made it all the way to Moscow, but the russian climate, as it did to the invading germans, defeated him, and several hundred tousands of his soldiers froze to dead.

Few years ago, another mass grave was found in Lituania, and it was thought that is was from WW2, but judging from the metal bottons, it became evident that it was a mass grave for Napoleons soldiers....
 
superbee said:
If the germans didn't invade russia,the russians would have eventually invaded the west.it was only a matter of timing.


FYI there is a new book coming out about allied war crimes.Every publisher turned him down.It is being privately printed.Should make interesting reading.

When I was in university one of my teachers was in a french prison camp from may 45 to april 46.Conditions were deplorable,1000's of germans died of starvation and exposure during the fall and winter.
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X2. My wife's Opa spent three years in a French POW camp starting in 45. Came to Canada as soon as he got out and never looked back. We have his wartime "hero shot" (those pastel coloured ones) hanging in our daughters room.

A good book about Japanese war crimes is Knights of Bushido. Twice the size of the Nazi war crime book in that series.

On another note, it always kills me to see photos of mistreated and/or humiliated Wermacht. Proud soldiers demonized by the Allies and dragged into the same s*** pile by the SS. It makes me incredibly angry to hear that the Russians desecrated the German cemeteries and have left the bones to bleach.
 
Any good historical overview of the Soviet actions pre-German invasion would show that the Russians were already moving on the Western front and it was only a matter of time until Germany and Russia had to duke it out. The Soviets invaded Finland, Estonia, Bessarabia in Romania, Hungary, And let's not forget that the Soviet Union was equally complicit in the invasion and occupation of Poland. Sure, it's easier to call Hitler evil and blame everything on Germany but the truth is there were two monsters (at least!) in Europe and they were both intent on invasion and extermination of those they saw as enemies.

The problem for me is I don't know which side I would fight for if I had to choose between the two. They were both the absolute rock bottom of murderous governments.
 
Hmmm,maybe some fairly revisionist views of history here. Both the Germans and the Japanese initiated wars of aggression without any prompting or justification from anyone else. Hitler colluded with Stalin to divy up Poland before he made the classic strategic errors of fighting on 2 fronts(mistake #1) and attempting an invasion of the Russian vastness(mistake #2). Ironically the Germans became the fathers of their own eventual downfall by inserting Lenin at the right time to precipitate the revolution and take the Russians out of WW1(mistake #3).

The German experience in WW1 should have helped avoid mistake #1 and a study of Napoleon's collapse in front of Moscow should have avoided mistake #2. The Germans were always superb tacticians and excellent at the operational level,but miserable strategic thinkers. Let's not even talk about mistake #3.

It is encouraging that the Japanese have been pacified for the past 60+ years and that the tribal wars of Europe now seem to be over(except for the recent miseries in the Balkans). No more brass bands and irresistable urges to march on Paris via Belgium. When serving beside the Germans in NATO and the Austrians in the UN I often thought that it was much better to drink beer with them than having to line up against them as my father and grandfather did.
 
snowhunter said:
Please find and watch the Youtube "March of german prisoners in Moscow 1944".

What happened to them all ?
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They Froze their Balls off in Siberia. In the Book "Enemy at the Gates" it explains how they were fed small rations of Corn in the Gulag and how they became ingenious at "Recycling the Corn" in the Outhouse. They would pick the Corn from the Excrement and wash it and eat it again as the rations were small. Survival - Gulag Style.

I often wondered if thats where the saying came from, "You can eat the Corn out of my S**t".
 
If you read Mein Kampf you will see that Hitler planned the invasion of Russia in the early 1920's. The Germans needed land to expand into and his aim was to provide the land army while the British supplied the sea power.
A felllow at work's father was a German soldier captured at Leningrad. He didn't make it home till the early 50's, one of a handful who survived from his battalion. His family thought he was dead. He came to Cnada shortly after.The tough old guy is still going strong at 89 going off moose hunting.
 
Most were marched / trained to the gulags / Siberian Camps . I think 5000 of them came back eventually.

Our Old Friend K98Action should be around here soon with a new username to tell how unfair everyone was to the germans during and after the war.
 
Recce21 said:
He wouldn't be wrong.....although I see WW1 and WW2 as one larger war. The Treaty of Versailles was a travesty.
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They should of thought about that before they bombed Pearl Harbour. :D

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I still won't forget the 20,000 Polish officers EXECUTED by Stalin in the Katryn forest. He tried to blame the germans, except they were nowhere near that place when it happened.

Once knew an ex german soldier who visited russia in 1940. He left eight years later.
As a parting gift to their captors, the germans planted flowers on a hill in the camp expecting them to bloom after they were released. The release date was was moved back and there were all these germans sitting on the hill quietly picking red, black and white flowers before they could bloom.;)
 
ROBSMITH;
You forget one thing my friend,it is the victor who writes history....The loser suffers the consequences.... Interesting no....

It is interesting in many of the former East Bloc countries that first came the Germans, they built camps for prisoners of all types, political, military, etc, etc.... Later on when the countries were "liberated" by the allies, which included the Soviets, these very same camps fell under "new management" and the Germans were the prisoners....

Many of these facilities became army camps etc long after the war when the prisoners were at last let go.... We were using one just outside Belgrade for years as a storage depot, until Nato bombed it during the Bosnean war. In this camp the Germans went home in 1948.
John
 
ROB SMITH;
You seemed shocked by how inhuman our species can be, well never underestimate the average human being's ability to do insane things....

During my long and numerous visits to eastern Europe I visited the burial site of the massacre at Timishouara (i hope I spelled it right) less than a week after the event (Rumanian revolt in the early 90s) , a trench which seemed to go on forever....

I have been witness to many of the events during both Balkan wars, this was officially a "civil war" nothing civil my friend, simply outrageous slaughter.

I have seen towns that were completely wiped off the map, only sign posts left....

Central America has many sites that were no less famos, and no less deadly

The remaining sites from WW-11 and our more recent mini wars should be mandatory visits for our college and university studends, after all they are the leaders of tomorrow....
Only my 2 cents
John
 
johnone said:
ROB SMITH;
You seemed shocked by how inhuman our species can be, well never underestimate the average human being's ability to do insane things....

John
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Fail.
Both of you. The who build empires, murder millions, torture etc. are not human.

The word means something, and it might even be that if people were to dare learn that meaning, there would be no war.
 
Overland said:
Fail.
Both of you. The who build empires, murder millions, torture etc. are not human.

The word means something, and it might even be that if people were to dare learn that meaning, there would be no war.
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Fail!

They ARE human, with emotions and reason no matter how flawed. By de-humanizing a person, you are once again spreading the hateful propaganda that has caused the millions to turn a blind eye. De-humanizing someone in the vain of righteousness is how we got here in the first place.
 
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