Going to Hunt with a Silent Load... :)

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Camp Cook said:
The 40 S&W thread got me thinking...

I am now planning for next year to hunt blacktail deer in super thick bush but very close to a residential area it is legal to hunt there but I do not want to bother anyone or let others know that I am shooting.

So I am going to be using my 22" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 45-70 loaded with some very special 450gr cast bullet loads they will be seated into the case backwards for the widest meplat that you can imagine and they will only be doing 300fps.

The load of 3grs Tite-Group held in place with styrofoam is so quiet that the hammer hitting is louder than the shot these will group appr 1 1/2" using iron sights and shoot thru a 2" X 4" @ 25 yards.

The goal will be to get very close 20 - 25 yards max and shoot the deer thru the lungs/heart if I can't get close enough I will not shoot.

I worked with Paco Kelly's data to develop my loads he has shot a coyote @ 50 yards using the same velocities and a slightly lighter 400gr bullet the bullet hit the coyote square in the chest and exited the off side of the chest.

Ok I'm ready I can take it let the spewing begin... :popCorn: :p
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I love it. Can I please come with you? I will bring my spear.
 
buckbrush said:
I have never shot cast bullets lower than 675 fps, and that is in .455 , 476 revolvers. At 300 fps have you stuck any bullets in your barrel?
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Part of working up or should I say down the load is to go until you do stick the bullet in the barrel then increase the load until you are silent and have a reliable velocity the idea is the barrel is your silencer get the powder to burn up completely inside the barrel before the bullet exits resulting in no noise.

I worked up the load in about 8 C then went out to Alberta and tried them in -30 C they worked great in the warmer temps and would stick or just barely get out of the barrel in the cold temp even when I left the bullets in my pocket to keep them warm.

Softer lead bullets would work better due to how they will seal the bore better I am using hard cast because I don't have anything else and I wanted a harder bullet so they will not expand on impact resulting in better penetration.
 
300 fps sure as heck won't stick the bullet in the barrel.
I once did quite a bit of practice with very low loads in a 30-06 with cast bullets. The advantage of this was I was shooting them in the basement. I would have to check my notes, but I think I was down to around 3.5 to 4 grains of Unique. At forty feet they would just make an enlarged hole and I was amazed how many pages of magazines they would go through. And the bullets only weighed about 160 grains.
Camp Cook, you now have my interest back up. I may have to try out something like that in the 45-70!
 
When I was playing around with subsonic cast bullets in the 30-30 at about 800fps, they penetrated very well, but didn't expand. SOund was like a "pop" of a .22 short.

The 45/70 doens't need expansion, but you could push it up a but in velocity and nobody closer than 100 yards would hear anything other than what sounds like a hammer hitting a nail.

I'd try it out in some wet newspaper first, should give you a good idea of it's capabilities.
 
Hey Camp!

I played around with a 358Win with a 180 grain hard cast at 750fps. The load was developed for grouse, but I did shoot a small island deer with it....Not a spectacular killer, but the little buck only made it 75 yards or so. The Kieth type penetrated the broadside no problem. One issue I did have was bullets getting stuck in the barrel...Maybe I was using the wrong powder?

Your project brings back a distant (Ross Seyfried) memory of full wadcutters behaving erratically in meat?

Seems to me the square front edge develops a secondary vortex that interacts with and interrupts the primary nose vortex bubble (the good one) retarding penetration and destabilizing bullet direction?

Any way thought I would mention it...It might be worth testing.

Good luck with project Silencedeer.:D
 
X-fan said:
Hey Camp!


Seems to me the square front edge develops a secondary vortex that interacts with and interrupts the primary nose vortex bubble (the good one) retarding penetration and destabilizing bullet direction?
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I believe X-fan means cavitation but i wouldn't worry too much about it as at 300 fps your not going to cause a lot of cavatation. If you really want to quiten things down try clamping a heavyduty plastic bottle on the end. You could spice things up a little if your really only going 300fps with a 450gr bullet your only developing 90 ft/lbs of energy 500ft/lbs is considered the ethical minimum for deer. if its going thru coyotes you must be going faster than 300fps. Paint balls go 300fps. Of course they dont have the mass a 450gr bullet does but still...
 
Redpoints said:
I love it. Can I please come with you? I will bring my spear.
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Spear? :evil: Reminds me of a rather long thread here on CGN years ago about Gatehouse and his spear. (And lo and behold, he just posted on this thread. Maybe he still has it?)

The subsonic thing really sounds interesting. You should be able to get a pic of the bullet in flight!

JD Jones at SSK Industries (?) developed a whole line of "Whisper" cartridges at subsonic velocities, although I don't think he's gone anywhere as low as 300 fps. At that speed you could almost play baseball with those bullets.

:) Stuart
 
Quiet is one thing......but betting an animals pain and suffering/risk of a lost animal on the chance that a 90 ft/lb, 300 FPS/non-expanding load will cleanly kill is irresponsible IMO.

You are talking about punching a hole in the deer.....no bloodletting (like an arrow...which, BTW, while travelling at the same speed cuts a 1.5"+ wide hole...a bullet doesn't)

Sorry, whay you are proposing is right up there with hunting deer with a .22 (a .22 HP will open to close to the same dia as your load...but at least it will dump *some* energy into the animal in the process)

Will it kill the animal? Sure....Will it do it cleanly/quickly/ethically? Maybe not....not worth the risk to me, but it's just my opinion.
 
Camp Cook said:
....these will group appr 1 1/2" using iron sights and shoot thru a 2" X 4" @ 25 yards.

The goal will be to get very close 20 - 25 yards max and shoot the deer thru the lungs/heart if I can't get close enough I will not shoot....
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If you had not done that testing, I would have thought that a small blunt projectile at compound bow velocities would not penetrate a deer's rib cage. Sure there is a big difference in scale, but I have shot rabbits at 20 yds with a 22 using CB Long 29gr RN bullets at 500-600 fps, and it completely penetrated the ribs and was deformed on a rock on the other side. It too was practically silent (I could hear the metallic click of the hammer). The lack of sound is not due to all the powder having been burnt before the bullet exits the barrel (even much hotter loads are completely burnt up in the first few inches of barrel), it's due to low pressure at the muzzle.

The thing about energy is that it increases by the square of velocity, so a 300 fps load has only 1/4 of the energy of a 600 fps load. Flat noses don't penetrate as well as RN.

Good work. So very few gunnutz do anything original (because it's dangerous!)

Very interesting too, but I remain a sceptic. However you did the testing on the 2x4.....
 
if you load the bullet backwards you are now hunting with a FMJ which is illegal. Just load the bullet soft point first you are not going to get any expansion anyway at the speed you are talking. The whisper line of cartridges all use small powder charges and heavy for caliber bullets to accomplish what you are trying to do. It has merrit but I think you need to increase the bullet velocity to at least 700 fps.
 
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