Some guns just work and some are stubborn...

With a Hornet, the Lee collet neck resize dies are your friend. I had much better results with them than with conventional RCBS dies. Once fired cases will headspace on the shoulder, and run out of seated bullets is minimal. I'm not so fond of the Lee dies in thicker cases but for the paper thin hornet cases they shine IMO.
 
Glock4ever said:
A: When I was working the loads with lil gun it is deceptive but dramatic. Lower charges (at least from what I could see) would spray them all over the place - 2-3" at 100m which for an Anschutz is pretty much unacceptable. As soon as I got to about 13.0 grains of powder, the rifle started to group very tightly - it could be because I am using a pistol primer but I think the pressures weren't high enough. I tried it with 3 bullets so far and the same result (Vmax 40 grain, Sierra HP 40 grain, and Sierra Hornet 40 grain). You may be experiencing the same thing. There is not enough space in the case of a hornet to put too much lil gun in - pressures will remain safe even if powder is flowing out of the top.
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Tried 13.0grs with a 45gr Rem HP, you were right, it was like a switch flipped and grouped 0.42" on the first and only group. Was -35 "on the clock" and -45 with the windchill, had five loads to do and it was tough going so everything was abbreviated. About as hot as I'd want to load the Hornet but still not crazy, load will be safe in warmer temps as I kept them heated to body temp in my inside pocket until right before firing. Probably will sight my rifle in for this load and make it my hunting load. It burns a lot cleaner in the bore than IMR4227 as well.

Longwalker said:
With a Hornet, the Lee collet neck resize dies are your friend. I had much better results with them than with conventional RCBS dies. Once fired cases will headspace on the shoulder, and run out of seated bullets is minimal. I'm not so fond of the Lee dies in thicker cases but for the paper thin hornet cases they shine IMO.
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Bought a set last week and tried them today, tough to say in my gun, oddly enough groups opened up with the collet neck sized cases over FL RCBS sized with the lighter loadings, but tightened up the groups of the hot loadings. The 'Lil Gun load above seemed to like the collet sizing.
 
You gotta be the only guy at that range on a day like today:D My Ruger liked Lil'gun, 13g gave the best group...if I could have figured a way to get more in there I would, but 13 was flowing out of the case
 
If you long drop the powder, it settles down into the little Hornet case considerably. The collet neck die from Lee also leaves your full chamber volume case capacity intact. In my CZ, a collet sized case with a long drop of 13.0grs 'Lil Gun ends up even slightly below the bullet base, the load's probably 99% density and not compressed, and I seat pretty short as my CZ likes them that way. And yes indeed, had the range to myself... was refreshing.
 
Angus: I doubt you need to worry about overloading/overpressure with a hornet and lil gun. I believe that the case has barely enough capacity to get it into the pressure range where it will group properly - probably the reason why lil gun and the 221 fireball are such a good match as there is enough room in that particular case to take a 22 cal bullet to the right pressures. If you don't believe me check our Hogdgon's webpage and see what the pressures are against H4227 (similar burn rate to IMR 4227) they are ridiculous (the spread that is) and the bizarre thing is that Lil gun will put up velocities that are much higher. I don't know how this is happening as you would think as pressure goes up/velocity would too but check out the data:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Lil gun is by far the weirdest powder I have encountered. If they could make it temp insensitive I would use this powder exclusively in my 22 cals.
 
I'm using Lil'gun in my BRNO K-Hornet with great success. Groups are really great at around 5/8" for 5 at 100. FWIW, I also use that powder in my 357 Magnum Ruger BH with jacketed bullets, and it is spectacular in that as well. Eagleye.
 
I also loaded my .357's with 'Lil Gun, 18.0grs under a 158gr GDHP makes for a peppy load, and great in a .357 rifle.

As for 'Lil Gun in my Hornet, pressure wise I get some pretty flattened primers at 13.0grs, fairly sharp edged for a SR primer in a Hornet (done a lot of reloading, there's definite pressure here). Apparently, though I haven't slugged it, CZ527's in the Hornet actually run a .2232" bore, which could be part of why I see higher pressures. I also note a pressure ring at the bottom of the case, just where a Hornet separates when it does, though it is faint and not disconcertingly evident. Just about as much as I'd run in my lil Hornet. Need to find a Lee factory crimp die, usually I only like them for lever gun rounds, but I can't get a lot of neck tension with the current setup and would like a tighter crimp on the rounds.

Starting to enjoy shooting this lil guy again... :)
 
I really recommend you move down to a match small pistol primer if you are seeing pressure signs. I read an article in a recent issue of handloader (I will look up the issue when I have some time) where the author, a tech at CCI/RCBS (same company I believe) discusses what he learned about hornets and small rifle primers. It is a good read but in a nutshell, he recommended that hand loaders use a Sm. Pistol Primer (SPP) for the Hornet because the Sm Rifle Primers (SRP) were too "hot" for the hornet case. What would happen is that a SRP would cause significant spikes in pressure. He reported with a pressure gauge that there were actually 2 pressure spikes which would cause varying velocities. It was so bad that he could not give a recommended load for the hornet using SRP, he found that this problem was alleviated when using a SPP. I am currently using a SPP (Fed 100 Match) and it is not showing any signs of pressure. Before you try crimping try the SPP, if you are still inconsistent then move to a crimp. If you check out the Sierra Load guide it is one of the few reloading books that recommend a SPP.

The Anschutz 1730 has the same bore size as the CZ527 - Europeans for some particular reason like the smaller bore of the .223 but I haven't run into any issues using .224 bullets.
 
Angus: Edit my last statement the article in question is not "Handloader" but "Shooting Times" (September 2009) Article "Going Ballistic" by Allan Jones who worked for CCI at the time. The portion I am referring to is on page 16 under "Too much primer". He also indicates at the end of the article that the hornet loads can have higher charges/better velocities with the SPP.
 
Ross Seyfried also wrote an article for either Handloader or Rifle several years ago and also recommended the pistol primer for reloading the Hornet.
 
After a an unhappy grizzly incident in the Kootneys I decided a lightweight 416 Rem was in order....I assembled the parts and had Guntech do his thing...just in time for a big hunt.

I own a lot of really big guns, but I want to tell you this sub 8 pound 416 was a violent piece of work. Lots of experienced big bore shooters shot one round and handed the rifle back. To say it was brutal would be an understatement.

I tried Barnes X in 300, 325, 350, and 400 grains, Hornady 400's, Speer mags tips (350's I think), and finally Swift 400 grainers all with multiple powders.....1.5-4 inch groups...nothing consistently accurate.

After 600 rounds in three short weeks my eyes would glaze and my hands would shake at the very thought of the rife!....I had had enough!:eek:
Me, my snarly attitude, and my new bone spur loaded up the "POS 416" and made a trip over to see Dennis.....

Turns out I should have made the trip sooner.....The rifle pulverised the recoil area of the Bell and Carlson stock.

Shortly after that the rifle was sitting in a new McMillan and shot tightly clustered groups with ALL of the above listed bullets and ALL of the powders I tried (Rl-15, 4064, 4320, and 4895).

You can call me stupid if you like.:redface:
 
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