Actually the USMC has been looking for a replacement for the M249 since the early 90's. As Repete has posted some of the more obvious reasons another reason is the weight of the SAW as well as the operational requirements or tasking have changed and require a new platform.The Marines have spent alot of time studying and testing different platforms to fill the requirement .Is this the best possible choice for a new platform who knows but it is not a decision that was made lightly because the Marines have always followed a belief that marksman ship regins supreme and not volume of fire
Corps chooses H&K
- Thread starter LeRoy
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Actually the USMC has been looking for a replacement for the M249 since the early 90's. As Repete has posted some of the more obvious reasons another reason is the weight of the SAW as well as the operational requirements or tasking have changed and require a new platform.The Marines have spent alot of time studying and testing different platforms to fill the requirement .Is this the best possible choice for a new platform who knows but it is not a decision that was made lightly because the Marines have always followed a belief that marksman ship regins supreme and not volume of fire
If they proceed with this and are still engaged in Iraq and A-stan, I'm willing to bet a dozen beer that the powers that be within the Corps will realize that they just stepped on their collective dicks and will be hurrying to dust off the M-249s in storage 6 months after this HK "rifle" replaces the 249 in the SAW role.
Feeding this thing with 30 round mags is simply dumb, dumb, dumb. How exactly is this HK "SAW" gunner ever going to carry enough mags to actually sustain full auto fire beyond a minute or two in a sustained firefight situation like Fallujah? Most jarheads aren't carrying more than 12-14 mags with them for the M-16A2s and M4s while on patrol.
Unless you're going to tie this HK "SAW" gunner to a Humvee and an adequate source of loaded mags, I really can't see him being any more effective than a regular rifleman armed with an M-16/M4. In a SHTF situation, every man in the squad and go full rock 'n roll for a minute or two in order to provide suppressive fire or to create an opportunity to break contact or seek cover. This is the kind of role the M-249 was designed for.
Instead the Marines are trading it for...brrrrrrrrp...pause, mag change....brrrrrrrp...pause, mag change...brrrrrp. As for the 249 not being ideally suited for house clearing, no s**t! There should be enough guys deployed on a patrol that you wouldn't need to employ your SAW gunner in that role. If they do, the Corps has more serious problems to worry about than the 249.
This is just about the worst case of drinking the HK Kool-Aid that I've read about.
Feeding this thing with 30 round mags is simply dumb, dumb, dumb. How exactly is this HK "SAW" gunner ever going to carry enough mags to actually sustain full auto fire beyond a minute or two in a sustained firefight situation like Fallujah? Most jarheads aren't carrying more than 12-14 mags with them for the M-16A2s and M4s while on patrol.
Unless you're going to tie this HK "SAW" gunner to a Humvee and an adequate source of loaded mags, I really can't see him being any more effective than a regular rifleman armed with an M-16/M4. In a SHTF situation, every man in the squad and go full rock 'n roll for a minute or two in order to provide suppressive fire or to create an opportunity to break contact or seek cover. This is the kind of role the M-249 was designed for.
Instead the Marines are trading it for...brrrrrrrrp...pause, mag change....brrrrrrrp...pause, mag change...brrrrrp. As for the 249 not being ideally suited for house clearing, no s**t! There should be enough guys deployed on a patrol that you wouldn't need to employ your SAW gunner in that role. If they do, the Corps has more serious problems to worry about than the 249.
This is just about the worst case of drinking the HK Kool-Aid that I've read about.
There aren't any m249s to put in storage. The ones in service are worn out, and have been for years.
I don't think they should completely replace the m249 with this HK, but they did need to replace it with SOMETHING functional, even if that meant buying new m249s which is way past due. Most of the complaints reference to C9s/m249s is because they are worn out. Leadership has to realize that weapons do not last forever and budget for replacements. I'm sure this issue will be exasperated with conventional units (with conventional budgets)getting issued mk46 and mk48 in Afghan....
I was assuming that the ones currently in service would be mothballed, but yeah, there is way too much bailing wire and gun tape holding together far too many SAWs these days. Either way, I guarantee there will be that "Oh ####, we stepped on our dicks" moment if they don't replace current M-249s with new ones or acquire a similar machine gun that can act in the same LMG/SAW role. The HK isn't going to cut it in the real world.
hvmetalhead
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Weird. why would you removed a weapon form service that such a high ammo cap.? This is why i am no a politiction, or a military man. because if i was this might make sense to me
So it actually sounds like they want a lighter M249 type weapon, which admittedly is a trade off.
You can't use a belt fed machinegun as an assault rifle.
You can't use an assault rifle for sustained automatic fire.
So they're creating a new support assault rifle that can handle sustained automatic fire.
It likely makes sense for the current missions, but I hope they keep the M249 available when they expect to need a bit more firepower.
You can't use a belt fed machinegun as an assault rifle.
You can't use an assault rifle for sustained automatic fire.
So they're creating a new support assault rifle that can handle sustained automatic fire.
It likely makes sense for the current missions, but I hope they keep the M249 available when they expect to need a bit more firepower.
Assault Rifle weight -- LMG firepower (albiet a lower cyclic, since it operates on recoil runout so unlike the M249 and Mk46 even worse in a C9 as it does not have a hydralic buffer, the gun does not beat itself to death).
Trey Knight has put well over 1/2 Million rounds thru two LMG's made in 99...
Other than new barrels they run and run and run.
+1
But I definitely don't think they will be replacing the M249 completely with this weapons that is essentially another assault rifle. Or at least I hope not because that would be really ####ty, the MG4 or another newer variant should be phased in as well over the older M249.
I think this purchase by the marines is more on the lines of adding to their capabilities, which is a big plus for me.
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When, we will see how it goes once their actually equip a testing unit with the IAR.
It sounds that right now, they have tested the weapon - but they have not actually tested the weapon in the field along with the tactics that it is supposed to go along with.
It sounds that right now, they have tested the weapon - but they have not actually tested the weapon in the field along with the tactics that it is supposed to go along with.
I just spent some time in North Carolina. All that I could hear anyone talking about was to "lighten the soldiers load". Savage said it right. They want a lighter system that can still put out some form of substained fire.
If a reliable 100 round drum mag, of some sort, is fielded then this could prove to be just the ticket.
And no the Corps doesn't make decisions like this quickly or lightly. They have thought this one out and determined that a lighter weapon system is what they need.
Rich
If a reliable 100 round drum mag, of some sort, is fielded then this could prove to be just the ticket.
And no the Corps doesn't make decisions like this quickly or lightly. They have thought this one out and determined that a lighter weapon system is what they need.
Rich
The concept of the M249 is based on a lightened GPMG for the section level assault in the middle of the countryside somewhere in Germany during the cold war.....
Does it have a place somewhere in the mix of present conflict - I can think of instances where it would, but it should supprise no one that they are looking to evolve their tools and processes as the way fighting has evolved.
Does it have a place somewhere in the mix of present conflict - I can think of instances where it would, but it should supprise no one that they are looking to evolve their tools and processes as the way fighting has evolved.
