- Location
- Halifax - NS
Exactly. if you have "problem" participants - it's up to the people you elected to run your section to properly deal with them.
Don't lay it on the match officials - or you'll soon find you have no officials - or matches...
Prepayment or not for IPSC Matches, split from Omens thread
- Thread starter Slavex
- Start date
Exactly. if you have "problem" participants - it's up to the people you elected to run your section to properly deal with them.
Don't lay it on the match officials - or you'll soon find you have no officials - or matches...
Read my post again Sean...
What happens outside the match proper is not our business. If an infraction occurs ..it should be dealt with "at the match" by the match officials.
Anything else is just a popularity contest.
supersenior
Member
- Location
- Mississauga
Sorry for the confusion..............
I wasn't referring to a match DQ.
Why can't "no shows" be made accountable for their actions?
e.g. Allow the Clubs, in question,to bill them for the match fee?
What "rule/rules" say that this can't be done?
Kindly refer me to the source.
It seems ludicrous that an upfront payment be required because of a small number of irresponsible shooters.
I wasn't referring to a match DQ.
Why can't "no shows" be made accountable for their actions?
e.g. Allow the Clubs, in question,to bill them for the match fee?
What "rule/rules" say that this can't be done?
Kindly refer me to the source.
It seems ludicrous that an upfront payment be required because of a small number of irresponsible shooters.
Ah...
If someone registers for a match...and doesn't show...the club has every right to ask for payment. Where it gets sticky is what happens if they don't pay up. All members in good standing have a right to participate. Not paying a match fee doesn't currently effect your status as a member.
This is an intersting conversation...but I can pretty much guarentee that if the Board of Directors (IPSC Ontario) got that involved with club operations...the clubs would tell us to get lost.
All of these suggestions (IMO) create more issues than they would solve. The easiest thing for clubs to do is ask for pre-payment. There's not much of a downside to that.
I guess we already agreed on that.
Though it is unlikely that most of the clubs will be able to provide all variety of convenient payment methods. So it still would be nice if there would be a common service for the shooters and match organizers that would help collecting the funds from competitors supporting several ways of payments (VISA, EMT, (FRAUD ALERT), money order, cash, etc) and then pass collected money to the club.
It's been discussed...but the same issue applies. If I had a shooting club...and put on matches...I'm not sure how happy I would be about an outside organization processing my money.
As a memebr of that outside organization...I'm not sure how happy we would be about taking on that responsibility.
Remember...be have 30ish clubs...and hundreds of santioned matches every year. Even if it were semi automated...it still takes a big chunk of time.
EESA used EMT for a few matches...and I thought it worked great (in conjuction with the funtionality that Omen already has in the system) Most major banks allow EMT...so it's not much of a stretch.
As a memebr of that outside organization...I'm not sure how happy we would be about taking on that responsibility.
Remember...be have 30ish clubs...and hundreds of santioned matches every year. Even if it were semi automated...it still takes a big chunk of time.
EESA used EMT for a few matches...and I thought it worked great (in conjuction with the funtionality that Omen already has in the system) Most major banks allow EMT...so it's not much of a stretch.
That is all I was saying.
It is conveniant for me to pay the day of. My bank is a Credit Union so I don't have EMT. Mailing a cheque is BS. I believe and have been witness to MD's letting other people in a match and paying day of when prepayment is the rule. MD's can do what ever they want. I have had an MD let me in a match I wasn't even on the waiting list for.
Omen's system with out prepayment atleast gives every body the same chance at getting in the match.
maka
You probably going to say that I am complaining again... but anyways. 
If I am not mistaken, EMT costs like $2.5 per transaction. It is not significant for most Level 2 and 3 matches, but for Level 1 that cost $15 it gets noticeable. In addition EMT goes off bank account as a transaction, so depending on the account plan you may also have to pay additional $2.5 for that.
This year I shoot probably about 20 matches, which adds up to about $100 just for the bank fees.
I'd rather put that money into equipment or give it to the clubs... All in all for me Visa would be a more convenient and preferable way to pay those match fees. I am not an expert in the area, but maybe it would make more sense to setup such payment system once then do that for each club.
If I am not mistaken, EMT costs like $2.5 per transaction. It is not significant for most Level 2 and 3 matches, but for Level 1 that cost $15 it gets noticeable. In addition EMT goes off bank account as a transaction, so depending on the account plan you may also have to pay additional $2.5 for that.
This year I shoot probably about 20 matches, which adds up to about $100 just for the bank fees.
I'd rather put that money into equipment or give it to the clubs... All in all for me Visa would be a more convenient and preferable way to pay those match fees. I am not an expert in the area, but maybe it would make more sense to setup such payment system once then do that for each club.
what's wrong with this..?
Hmm... I don't think I've heard a reply to my above suggestion yet...
...... only arguing about reporting no shows to make them pay later to renew their membership...which is just NOT a good idea...
Are good suggestions not worth discussing ?
I'm not a computer programmer, but to mention for the 3rd time.... ..... how hard is it to have no shows reported back onto the online system and it automatically puts an x in their profile and a note in some corner of their screen when they log in and in administrators file somewhere...
and if they get 2 x's, the computer automatically only allows access for signing up, to them by way of prepayment....yes, some more work involved here, but doesn't like much to me ?
so, no monetary penalty, just to have to pony up from now on....
I'm open to hearing some form of reply re: this.... even just to shut up... .....
Hmm... I don't think I've heard a reply to my above suggestion yet...
...... only arguing about reporting no shows to make them pay later to renew their membership...which is just NOT a good idea...Are good suggestions not worth discussing ?
I'm not a computer programmer, but to mention for the 3rd time....
..... how hard is it to have no shows reported back onto the online system and it automatically puts an x in their profile and a note in some corner of their screen when they log in and in administrators file somewhere...and if they get 2 x's, the computer automatically only allows access for signing up, to them by way of prepayment....yes, some more work involved here, but doesn't like much to me ?
so, no monetary penalty, just to have to pony up from now on....
I'm open to hearing some form of reply re: this.... even just to shut up...
.....Keep in mind that there is no requirement to use the online sign up...and several of our clubs still don't use it.
I work in IT...and cutomer self service is not the ideal solution for every problem...
I do find it a bit ironic that wer'e discussing piling this much work on to someone...to save a few people the burdon of having to write a cheque
I work in IT...and cutomer self service is not the ideal solution for every problem...
I do find it a bit ironic that wer'e discussing piling this much work on to someone...to save a few people the burdon of having to write a cheque
supersenior
Member
- Location
- Mississauga
This is an interesting conversation...but I can pretty much guarentee that if the Board of Directors (IPSC Ontario) got that involved with club operations...the clubs would tell us to get lost.
Hypothetical Case:
A member in good standing,(no show), fails to attend a match.
No reason given,etc......
In the future,the Club/MD/IPSC Rep, deems fit not to accept his next on line match entry or on site registration.
How would IPSC Ontario would respond to the member is he registers a complaint against the Club regarding the above action?
This isn't "rocket science" so a simple definitive answer would be appreciated.
Make a decision based on the above.
Hypothetical Case:
A member in good standing,(no show), fails to attend a match.
No reason given,etc......
In the future,the Club/MD/IPSC Rep, deems fit not to accept his next on line match entry or on site registration.
How would IPSC Ontario would respond to the member is he registers a complaint against the Club regarding the above action?
This isn't "rocket science" so a simple definitive answer would be appreciated.
Make a decision based on the above.
dinsdale
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Just outside the Ottawa City Limits!
You probably going to say that I am complaining again... but anyways.
If I am not mistaken, EMT costs like $2.5 per transaction. It is not significant for most Level 2 and 3 matches, but for Level 1 that cost $15 it gets noticeable. In addition EMT goes off bank account as a transaction, so depending on the account plan you may also have to pay additional $2.5 for that.
This year I shoot probably about 20 matches, which adds up to about $100 just for the bank fees.
I'd rather put that money into equipment or give it to the clubs... All in all for me Visa would be a more convenient and preferable way to pay those match fees. I am not an expert in the area, but maybe it would make more sense to setup such payment system once then do that for each club.
It is ~$1.25 -$150 ,IIRC, for EMT and if you get nailed twice, you need a better bank or better plan.
Credit Cards would have all matches cost more to account for the processing fees the Credit companies charge.. that will be passed along anyway so how is that better? Not to mention building the automated system and having MD's interface with it.
dinsdale
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Just outside the Ottawa City Limits!
Hmm... I don't think I've heard a reply to my above suggestion yet...
Are good suggestions not worth discussing ?
I'm not a computer programmer, but to mention for the 3rd time....
and if they get 2 x's, the computer automatically only allows access for signing up, to them by way of prepayment....yes, some more work involved here, but doesn't like much to me ?
so, no monetary penalty, just to have to pony up from now on....
I'm open to hearing some form of reply re: this.... even just to shut up...
I am a computer programmer and it is several days work and introduces a lot of customer service issues for Omen.
What about disputes etc. ?
I don't see the big deal with Pre-payment if MD's choose to do this. It should prevent the issue of people signing up for all matches as soon as they open and only going to some. Isn't that big a deal for MD to process for bigger matches. May not be used at Level II's but might be worth it.
It's all reletive.
20 matches
$100 in bank fees (assuming all the MD's required prepayment)
$600 in match fees
$500 in gas
$750 in ammo
$2,000 for dinner and drinks afterwards ($4,000 if you hang with the Montreal boys)
$2,000 for new guns because your in Production and you prod guys are the gamiest b@stards in IPSC...er...ooops (that was meant to be my inside voice)
$5,000 for psychiatrist fees because your Shadow won't stop jamming (and an additional $2,000 in dental fees because you ground off your back teeth)
...and finally $6,000 for the Open rig you should have started with in the first place...
The competitor would have to be allowed to prepay for the match...just refusing to accept his registration would be a problem. It hasn't happened yet...and it's not as black and white as we would like...but all members in good standing have the same eligibility to shoot the matches of their choice. Club issues (like not showing up) do not effect membership status.
Ah, I see you have realized that Open is the only truly pure division.
Mr Clean keeps telling me "It's not a Division...it's a life style"!!
dinsdale
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Just outside the Ottawa City Limits!
Quig's just upset because he is the only one who could never get his CZ to work well and still blames the gun!
I am sure you are joking. I guess I shouldn't take a class with you since I shoot production.
I am sure you are joking. I guess I shouldn't take a class with you since I shoot production.
Oh, that's ok. You can go ahead and shoot that unclean, red-headed step-child of an Open gun....for now. One day it will grow up to have electronic sights and a compensator on it anyway ;-)
Actually, I wouldn't mind getting a Production gun to mess around with. But I would have to harvest a new set of eyes from a 20 year old.
