most accurate hunting bullet
- Thread starter eg23
- Start date
Bullets for hunting & paper
Eric you might want to look at site on Bergers there 168gr Match target are hard to beat for paper, and the 168gr Hunting bullets I have heard are very good as well
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Hunting Bullets.html
Eric you might want to look at site on Bergers there 168gr Match target are hard to beat for paper, and the 168gr Hunting bullets I have heard are very good as well
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Hunting Bullets.html
I shoot a tikka t3 300.win mag with 180g nosler partitiion and 79 grains of reloder 22 with a federal 215 primer is shot 0.53'' group at 200 meters and 0.47'' at 100 meters these were 3 shot groups with a 1.2'' 5 shot group at 100 meters and these were my 3rd box of hand loaded ammo ever and I was shooting off of a bi-pod not a bench vise.
how did I achieve this? by having an accurate rifle of course. but mainly by posting a thread on this website asking what a good recipe for an accurate hunting round for my particular rifle and caliber would be. let these words be very encouraging as there are many great people on this website with great knowledge that are willing to help you or me out. this being said Always cross reference there information with at least one reloading manual.
how did I achieve this? by having an accurate rifle of course. but mainly by posting a thread on this website asking what a good recipe for an accurate hunting round for my particular rifle and caliber would be. let these words be very encouraging as there are many great people on this website with great knowledge that are willing to help you or me out. this being said Always cross reference there information with at least one reloading manual.
The best shooting bullet I have found for my 25-06AI Cooper is the 120gr SGK hpbt, haven't shot enough game to comment on their terminal performance but they kill yotes just fine.
blacksmithden
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Picked off another deer today with Speer Spitzer 180 gr Hotcores. Don't know if this should be much of a testimonial though. 25 yard shot to the back of the head with a 300 win mag. I could have been shooting tofu at that range.
I actually like the Hornady AMax, both for paper and for hunting. 178 grain from a 300 SAUM. They pretty well explode after initial penetration. Often times, I found maybe 75% of the jacket up against the far side of the animal's hide, with no exit wound. means that the bullet is delivering the entire payload of energy into the target.
Have also had really good results with the 210 grain Berger VLD frm the same gun. They also fragment big time. Personally, my belief is that if a bullet retains its weight, and an exit wound is created, then the bullet was not effective in delivering its energy into the animal. Bullets kill by shock. An exit wound is desired when bowhunting, but not here IMHO.
Have also had really good results with the 210 grain Berger VLD frm the same gun. They also fragment big time. Personally, my belief is that if a bullet retains its weight, and an exit wound is created, then the bullet was not effective in delivering its energy into the animal. Bullets kill by shock. An exit wound is desired when bowhunting, but not here IMHO.
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
In 30 cal , I like the 165 Gameking by Sierra
The energy "wasted" on the exit of a bullet from a game animal is inconsequential, believe me!! If you ever have to track a game animal any distance, you will appreciate that exit hole a lot more. It is strictly conjecture to say that a bullet kills better if it does not exit. I have shot upward of 500 head of game in my lifetime, and it is picking flys*** out of pepper to worry about whether a bullet exits or not. Either way, a well placed decently constructed bullet kills quickly. FWIW, fragmentation is undesirable if penetration through any big bone is necessary. Regards, Eagleye.
I am not worried about the exit wound at all, merely stating the fact that a bullet kills via shock, and if the bullet remains in the animal, that all the energy has been delivered in the form of shock.
Fortunately for me, I have not had to track any animals
nor am I a professional hunter..... just a guy that understands far more than the basics, and who's understanding has worked very well.....thus far....."Either way, a well placed decently constructed bullet kills quickly."
Couldn't agree more. Obviously.
Cheers, and to each their own.
EDIT: After re-reading the original post, I would put a vote for the SST. They are a pretty decent bullet.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I think that this concept of shock created from the passage of a bullet is often misunderstood. If you look at the typical wound from an expanding high velocity rifle bullet, the entry wound diameter is small, matching the bullet diameter up to several inches of penetration (depending on the construction of the bullet and the density of the tissue encountered) then as the bullet rapidly expands, the wound cavity balloons many times the diameter of the bullet, then as the velocity decays and finally becomes subsonic, the wound diameter narrows, matching the expanded diameter of the bullet.
The shock you refer to effects soft tissue only, and is the area that is crushed by the shock wave that comes off the nose of the expanded, but still supersonic, bullet. Nothing more is gained by a bullet that stays inside the body, but if the bullet exits, that makes the wound cavity longer, it may break more bones, and it will produce a larger blood trail to follow up, should tracking prove necessary. While some folks like a bullet that grenades inside the body cavity, and there is no question that when this works it works well, I prefer a bullet that retains much of it's original weight, delivers straight line penetration, and exits. When hunting there is no guarantee that you will get a broadside shot, and the bullet must overcome a much more difficult passage if the shot is quartering, head on, or straight away.
A soft point bullet with a longer expanding length can result in a larger frontal diameter. The larger the expansion of the nose of the bullet, the larger the wound volume, with the proviso that the bullet remains long enough that it continues to spin around a linear axis thus maintaining stability, and that the expanded diameter is not so excessive that the bullet can loose straight line penetration due to bone and tissue impacting far out from it's center of gravity. It might be argued that such a bullet by necessity is very heavy and velocity is compromised. This is true, but the effect on trajectory over normal hunting ranges is not great, and the greater bullet weight ensures the the bullet with the larger expanded frontal area penetrates as well as the faster bullet with the smaller expanded frontal area, but the wound diameter will be significantly larger even though the impact velocity was perhaps hundreds of fps slower.
Naturally the construction of the bullet must take into account the density of the target and the impact velocity of the bullet. One does not need as strongly a constructed bullet when shooting deer with a .30/30 as he might when shooting African buffalo with a .378 Weatherby.
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Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I have gotten the best accurately, most consistently among my rifles, with the Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets. The bullet that has been 2nd most consistently accurate for me is the SST.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
I dont' know that I had a lot of inacurate components to deal with but like mentioned above if you have to take a chance on a few the ballistic tips work well and I get about the same accuracy in an SST which has a similar contruction. Gamekings are accurate and again these work better if you dont hit the shoulder at close range....seem an SST make quite a mess of a small doe a few years back.
I think that this concept of shock created from the passage of a bullet is often misunderstood. If you look at the typical wound from an expanding high velocity rifle bullet, the entry wound diameter is small, matching the bullet diameter up to several inches of penetration (depending on the construction of the bullet and the density of the tissue encountered) then as the bullet rapidly expands, the wound cavity balloons many times the diameter of the bullet, then as the velocity decays and finally becomes subsonic, the wound diameter narrows, matching the expanded diameter of the bullet.
The shock you refer to effects soft tissue only, and is the area that is crushed by the shock wave that comes off the nose of the expanded, but still supersonic, bullet. Nothing more is gained by a bullet that stays inside the body, but if the bullet exits, that makes the wound cavity longer, it may break more bones, and it will produce a larger blood trail to follow up, should tracking prove necessary. While some folks like a bullet that grenades inside the body cavity, and there is no question that when this works it works well, I prefer a bullet that retains much of it's original weight, delivers straight line penetration, and exits. When hunting there is no guarantee that you will get a broadside shot, and the bullet must overcome a much more difficult passage if the shot is quartering, head on, or straight away.
A soft point bullet with a longer expanding length can result in a larger frontal diameter. The larger the expansion of the nose of the bullet, the larger the wound volume, with the proviso that the bullet remains long enough that it continues to spin around a linear axis thus maintaining stability, and that the expanded diameter is not so excessive that the bullet can loose straight line penetration due to bone and tissue impacting far out from it's center of gravity. It might be argued that such a bullet by necessity is very heavy and velocity is compromised. This is true, but the effect on trajectory over normal hunting ranges is not great, and the greater bullet weight ensures the the bullet with the larger expanded frontal area penetrates as well as the faster bullet with the smaller expanded frontal area, but the wound diameter will be significantly larger even though the impact velocity was perhaps hundreds of fps slower.
Naturally the construction of the bullet must take into account the density of the target and the impact velocity of the bullet. One does not need as strongly a constructed bullet when shooting deer with a .30/30 as he might when shooting African buffalo with a .378 Weatherby.
Now take that same image you posted and from the entrance wound, draw a cone (which represents the expansion properties of a more frangible bullet. There is more damaged tissue, and a less emphasized exit wound, if any.
The image you show would only apply if you are a believer of hydrostatic shock, as the wound channel is larger than the largest diameter of the bullet. Of course there are some that claim it has been disproven conclusively, and others on the opposite side of the fence.
My goal is to cause as much internal tissue damage as possible, and when a bullet fragments, it increases it's surface area, thus damaging more tissue as the particles separate in a (generally) conical pattern. This rapid deceleration of the projectile, transfer of energy from the fragments to the tissue and the resulting tissue damage is best described as mechanical shock.
But that doesn't mean you should be the guy that brings varmint grenades for moose....
There is a perfect projectile for every application, but the trick is to find the one that does the most applications properly. I found mine. But I also don't use a gun to hunt moose.
I have had many shoot real good in a variety od cartridges, but I swear by the Accubonds, SGK, and plain old ornady SPs for accuracy, other than match bullets.
Had hit am miss accuract (sub Moa) with the TSX Bullet
Had hit am miss accuract (sub Moa) with the TSX Bullet
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Now take that same image you posted and from the entrance wound, draw a cone (which represents the expansion properties of a more frangible bullet. There is more damaged tissue, and a less emphasized exit wound, if any.
The image you show would only apply if you are a believer of hydrostatic shock, as the wound channel is larger than the largest diameter of the bullet. Of course there are some that claim it has been disproven conclusively, and others on the opposite side of the fence.
My goal is to cause as much internal tissue damage as possible, and when a bullet fragments, it increases it's surface area, thus damaging more tissue as the particles separate in a (generally) conical pattern. This rapid deceleration of the projectile, transfer of energy from the fragments to the tissue and the resulting tissue damage is best described as mechanical shock.
But that doesn't mean you should be the guy that brings varmint grenades for moose....
There is a perfect projectile for every application, but the trick is to find the one that does the most applications properly. I found mine. But I also don't use a gun to hunt moose.
The hydrostatic shock theory is mostly championed by those who choose to drive light for caliber bullets at very high velocities. IMHO they put too much emphasis on the debilitating nature of the temporary wound cavity. The permanent wound cavity is another matter; it's effects are visible, measurable, and indisputable. The diameter of the permanent wound cavity is determined by the expanded diameter of the bullet and it's velocity.
When the permanent wound cavity is created by the passage of a supersonic bullet, it is of greater diameter than the expanded diameter of the bullet. The supersonic shock-wave moving ahead of and moving diagonally outward from the expanded nose of the bullet through the fluid bearing tissue causes the damage. This is proven by the passage of the bullet through bone. The wound diameter through a big bone equals the bullet diameter, rather than a similar wound diamter as seen in the soft tissue. If the large wound diameter was trhe result of mechanical displacement, the bone wound would likewise be very wide.
The diameter of the wound cavity is determined more by the expanded diameter of the bullet than by it's velocity. The greater the width of the expanded diameter of the bullet the greater the diameter of the permanent wound cavity. I proved this when testing bullets in my .375. The 270 gr XLC at 2850 fps and the 300 gr X at 2600 fps bullet had very similar wound volumes, despite the 270 gr bullet being 300 fps faster, the expanded diamters were nearly identical at .72". The 380 gr Rhino expanded to .92" and the wound volume was much greater than the X bullets yet it's velocity was only 2300 fps, 600 fps slower than the 270 gr X. The penetration of all 3 bullets was dead even. As far as I'm concerned that disproves the hydrostatic shock theory. Tissue that is damaged by mechanical displacement from the passage of an expanding big game bullet only occurs when the bullet has a subsonic velocity.
My contention is that there is little difference in the permanent wound diameter from a bullet that expands to the point of failure, making further penetration impossible and the permanent wound diameter from a bullet that is heavier, has a greater expansion potential (its longer), at a lower impact velocity and retains a greater percentage of weight. The bullet that is designed to fragment inside the game animal so that it results in the largest possible diameter of permanent wound cavity can only work when the bullet meets minimal resistance, it cannot damage tissue that it cannot reach. So by definition any shot other than broadside has a low percentage of being effective with such a bullet. The bullet that expands to double it's original diameter has it's center of gravity now at the nose, but retains a third of it's shank length to aid stability and ensure straight line penetration, and with sufficient mass to ensure that it looses velocity slowly is likely to exit. This means that this bullet has impacted all the tissue along it's tract. The smaller, bullet diameter permanent wound cavity resulting from the mechanical displacement of tissue once the bullet has dropped to a subsonic velocity adds to the total wound volume, so the potential total wound volume with this bullet is actually greater than the comparibly fragible bullet. All damaged tissue bleeds, and reduces the available blood that carries oxygen to the brain.
If a big bone is impacted it could result in the stoppage of the more fragile bullet, but the heavier, slower bullet with the large expanded nose will penetrate right through it. I actually witnessed this when shooting seals with a high velocity fast expanding bullet loaded in my .30/06. Although the bone disintergrated leaving a very shallow fist sized wound flecked with bullet metal, nothing drove into the seal's chest to kill it, until I managed to hit it in the neck.
LongBomber
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fernie, bc
I have started to use nosler accubonds in most of my rifles, except one that likes the tsx the best. I have shot a pile of game with the accubond, it works well on game and seem to fly true out of most of my rifles.
I have a problem with the whole "overpenetration" arguement. Does anyone actually know what the exit velocity of the bullet is after passing thru said game animal? Take a nosler partition 180 gr, impacting at 3100fps (approx 100 yards from my 300rum) it's packing roughly 3900ft/ibs of energy and more than enough velocity to expand... Now if the partition does it's job it will retain roughly 60% of it's weight...108gr. So what is the exit velocity? 500fps? Wow that bullet just spent 60ft/ib into the tree behind the animal. It left 3840 in the animal...If it exits at 1000fps that energy jumps to a monsterous 240ft/ib, so I ask what is the exit velocity and who cares if you lose 60-200 pounds of energy? It won't matter either way if you don't hit something vital!
So how much of a problem is overpenetration?
Use a bullet constructed for the job at hand...and put it in the right spot. Meet in the freezer everytime.
I have a problem with the whole "overpenetration" arguement. Does anyone actually know what the exit velocity of the bullet is after passing thru said game animal? Take a nosler partition 180 gr, impacting at 3100fps (approx 100 yards from my 300rum) it's packing roughly 3900ft/ibs of energy and more than enough velocity to expand... Now if the partition does it's job it will retain roughly 60% of it's weight...108gr. So what is the exit velocity? 500fps? Wow that bullet just spent 60ft/ib into the tree behind the animal. It left 3840 in the animal...If it exits at 1000fps that energy jumps to a monsterous 240ft/ib, so I ask what is the exit velocity and who cares if you lose 60-200 pounds of energy? It won't matter either way if you don't hit something vital!
So how much of a problem is overpenetration?
Use a bullet constructed for the job at hand...and put it in the right spot. Meet in the freezer everytime.
I always had good luck with Sierra bullets for accuracy. In fact I use Sierra, Hornady and Nosler in my guns, depends what shoots best. I have used the Accubond lately in some calibers and they have performed well.
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I'm not claiming that over-penetration is any PROBLEM. Don't know where you got that from, unless it wasn't aimed at me. I'm just claiming that I prefer that internal grenade going off, and for the bullet not to exit. The keywords are I PREFER. Of course a well placed shot is always key regardless of what bullet you use.
