ATC remote area carry handguns I recommend...
- Thread starter Camp Cook
- Start date
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
But it is true! Think about a big sow grizz and what she is going to do when she finds out that you have invaded her personal space!
Your probably going to find that after she barrel roles you, your going to have fight for your life from the ground up.
As well, from all the reports on bear attacks I have researched, unloading your whole magazine into your attacker is unlikely.
If you practice enough with your revolver you will be able to put all six well placed shots into your target in the same time the average shooter can empty their magazine into their shotgun scattered looking target.
Greg
Oh I understand what you were meaning that is why it was good humour...
I was picturing myself in that position trying to thumb back the hammer on my Ruger Bisley Vaquero and totally messing up and my thoughts were OH SH*T AHHHHHH OH SH*T...
I was picturing myself in that position trying to thumb back the hammer on my Ruger Bisley Vaquero and totally messing up and my thoughts were OH SH*T AHHHHHH OH SH*T...
Greg if you practice enough with your pistol you will be able to put 8 well placed shots into your target in half the time the average revolver shooter can empty their cylyinder into their shotgun scattered looking target with six shots
Take Care
Bob
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
Greg if you practice enough with your pistol you will be able to put 8 well placed shots into your target in half the time the average revolver shooter can empty their cylyinder into their shotgun scattered looking target with six shots
Take Care
Bob
Bob,
Good luck with your 45! I would still rather have someone shooting a magnum revolver backing me up.
Greg
Well if we go river fishing this summer I will have.....you, so keep practicing.
Remember you only have to out run me.
Take Care
Bob
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
Seasonal pass?
Do they give a seasonal pass or do I have to have you back everyday for supper?
Greg
Do they give a seasonal pass or do I have to have you back everyday for supper?
Greg
This is why the 22 CB Short is the ultimate bear defense round, shoot your buddy in the knee and take off
I wonder if a lanyard might be a good idea. If the bear knocks you down and you drop your revolver....... And don't forget cougars! They often strike without warning. Honestly, I think I would only carry a handgun as a backup to my rifle. I've lugged a rifle of one type or another everywhere I go in the woods, and have learned to live with the inconvenience. Still, there are times when I inadvertently stray more than arm's reach from the rifle, and it would be comforting to know that I'm not defenceless. Oddly enough, the only time I encountered a predatory black bear, I was raccoon hunting with a Spanish Destroyer carbine! Man, what an awful feeling. A .44mag. would have been handy at that moment.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
It seems to me that the discussion of the usefulness of pistols for ATC work is somewhat academic if the CFOs have got together and decided that pistols are not suitable for ATC applications. Doesn't much matter what we think at that point.
As to whether SA vs DA revolver answers the question better, that is best left to the individual. I'm comfortable with my choice of SA, and prefer it mostly because of the small size of the gun and it's mechanical simplicity. Even a 4" M-29 Smith is bulkier, and an N frame Smith isn't near as big as A DA Ruger, Dan Wesson, or the ridiculously (IMO) large S&W X frame guns. As you can see from the pics, my loads are controllable, where if I was using a hot .475 Linebaugh, the gun would rise much higher in recoil. Once you get into the true big bores, .500 S&W, .475 & .500 Linebaughs, or the .500 Wyoming, the best thing is to load her down. The trouble is that once you are into bullet weights approaching 500 grs, any load that approaches a supersonic velocity from a 5" barrel is going to kick hard enough to make a follow up shot slow whether you shoot one handed or two, SA or DA. Still if I was to choose a big bore, I would look favorably on the belted .500 Wyoming, designed for a SA revolver of minimal dimensions.
If I have to draw the gun quickly, my palm is open when it hits the gun butt. My strong side draw is circular coming from the bottom of the grip, the retaining strap is unsnapped as my hand passes the snap, and closes on the grip as it passes it. Whether I carry cross draw or strong side, my thumb finds the hammer spur very quickly, and the hammer is cocked as not as the gun clears the holster as advocated by some, but as it extends to the target. My support hand hits the grip as soon as the gun is in front of me, about belt level. If I am shooting two handed, it is my supprt hand that cocks the gun. By the time the front sight is on target I already have 2 pounds pressure on a 4 pound trigger. If my draw is from a cross draw, my support hand has unsnapped the holster by the time my strong hand has contacted the grip.
I know that CC holds to the idea of fast reloads, and there is merit in that, but if I've fired 5 rounds of .44 magnum and the bear is still moving fast enough that I have to be concerned about the speed of my reload, I'd better be thinking about the last round for myself. I can shoot under stress, I have proven to myself that I can stay calm until after the action is over, provided I have enough exposure to bears up close throughout the year, and most years I do. But, you don't have to be away from it long before you loose your edge though. If you are faced by a female with 2 second year cubs you could be in very serious trouble, and this is the scenario where CC's fast DA shooting and fast reload wins the day, but only if you are still alive by the time you've made hits on all 3. A female with cubs often attacks line abreast with a cub on either side, so you must know before hand what you are going to do about it.
The thing to keep in mind though is that the bear cannot hurt you if he cannot touch you. These marvelous instruments that we carry give us the advantage of being able to touch him before he can touch us. I prefer to let things happen close. That gives the bear every opportunity to change his mind, but it also ensures that I have a simpler marksmanship problem to solve. If he comes straight in, my target is perhaps 3" wide and a foot deep. That is pretty easy at 5 yards, but you have to know what you are going to shoot at before hand. If you have to figure it out before the action starts, you've wasted far too much time. I know my target is not a 1200 pound bear, my target is a 200 pound head, and a 325 gr WFN bullet from a .44 magnum is more than enough for a 200 pound target.
As to whether SA vs DA revolver answers the question better, that is best left to the individual. I'm comfortable with my choice of SA, and prefer it mostly because of the small size of the gun and it's mechanical simplicity. Even a 4" M-29 Smith is bulkier, and an N frame Smith isn't near as big as A DA Ruger, Dan Wesson, or the ridiculously (IMO) large S&W X frame guns. As you can see from the pics, my loads are controllable, where if I was using a hot .475 Linebaugh, the gun would rise much higher in recoil. Once you get into the true big bores, .500 S&W, .475 & .500 Linebaughs, or the .500 Wyoming, the best thing is to load her down. The trouble is that once you are into bullet weights approaching 500 grs, any load that approaches a supersonic velocity from a 5" barrel is going to kick hard enough to make a follow up shot slow whether you shoot one handed or two, SA or DA. Still if I was to choose a big bore, I would look favorably on the belted .500 Wyoming, designed for a SA revolver of minimal dimensions.
If I have to draw the gun quickly, my palm is open when it hits the gun butt. My strong side draw is circular coming from the bottom of the grip, the retaining strap is unsnapped as my hand passes the snap, and closes on the grip as it passes it. Whether I carry cross draw or strong side, my thumb finds the hammer spur very quickly, and the hammer is cocked as not as the gun clears the holster as advocated by some, but as it extends to the target. My support hand hits the grip as soon as the gun is in front of me, about belt level. If I am shooting two handed, it is my supprt hand that cocks the gun. By the time the front sight is on target I already have 2 pounds pressure on a 4 pound trigger. If my draw is from a cross draw, my support hand has unsnapped the holster by the time my strong hand has contacted the grip.
I know that CC holds to the idea of fast reloads, and there is merit in that, but if I've fired 5 rounds of .44 magnum and the bear is still moving fast enough that I have to be concerned about the speed of my reload, I'd better be thinking about the last round for myself. I can shoot under stress, I have proven to myself that I can stay calm until after the action is over, provided I have enough exposure to bears up close throughout the year, and most years I do. But, you don't have to be away from it long before you loose your edge though. If you are faced by a female with 2 second year cubs you could be in very serious trouble, and this is the scenario where CC's fast DA shooting and fast reload wins the day, but only if you are still alive by the time you've made hits on all 3. A female with cubs often attacks line abreast with a cub on either side, so you must know before hand what you are going to do about it.
The thing to keep in mind though is that the bear cannot hurt you if he cannot touch you. These marvelous instruments that we carry give us the advantage of being able to touch him before he can touch us. I prefer to let things happen close. That gives the bear every opportunity to change his mind, but it also ensures that I have a simpler marksmanship problem to solve. If he comes straight in, my target is perhaps 3" wide and a foot deep. That is pretty easy at 5 yards, but you have to know what you are going to shoot at before hand. If you have to figure it out before the action starts, you've wasted far too much time. I know my target is not a 1200 pound bear, my target is a 200 pound head, and a 325 gr WFN bullet from a .44 magnum is more than enough for a 200 pound target.
Boomer I am not dissing single action revolvers they are bullet proof guns and if your's are like mine they are extremely accurate guns when I do my part I can easily hit inside a 8" X 11" paper target everytime @ 100 yards using almost any of my top jacketed or cast loads.
My single actions are Bisley Vaquero's which gives me a hammer that is even easier/faster to get my thumbs onto to #### than a Vaquero due to its design.
My draw is almost exactly like yours during one Cowboy competition I was actually asked by a range officer if I was clearing leather before I was cocking the gun how you described your draw is exactly when I am cocking the gun I was asked because I was doing my draw so quickly that he couldn't tell.
I would not hesitate to carry a single action revolver and I am definately not saying we shouldn't and the odds of having the time to reload in most cases there won't be time so they are very low.
When we look at a SRH there isn't another revolver out there that holds 6 454 Casull rounds which I feel is the optimum cartridge for bear defense, the SD of the bullets allow far deeper penentration than larger rounds with this amount of power and being able to download to 45 Colt is a major bonus so there are more reasons that I am into the SRH than just faster reloads.
Befroe the RCMP took over the CFC we used to be able to put more than 2 handguns onto an ATC permit (I had 6 on one permit) so it was far easier to pick and choose which gun to take depending on the area/conditions/environment that I was working in now we don't have that option.
For winter carry there have now been times that I have reconsidered my choice of the Glock 29 10mm this is only due to not being allowed by the CFC to have it on my ATC, I have been considering a small Crimson Trace gripped J frame 5" barreled 5 shot S&W model 60 in 357mag or a 4 3/4" Ruger New Vaquero in 45 Colt my main concern is mtn lion at this time of year so I feel I do not need huge power or a large gun to carry around.
My single actions are Bisley Vaquero's which gives me a hammer that is even easier/faster to get my thumbs onto to #### than a Vaquero due to its design.
My draw is almost exactly like yours during one Cowboy competition I was actually asked by a range officer if I was clearing leather before I was cocking the gun how you described your draw is exactly when I am cocking the gun I was asked because I was doing my draw so quickly that he couldn't tell.
I would not hesitate to carry a single action revolver and I am definately not saying we shouldn't and the odds of having the time to reload in most cases there won't be time so they are very low.
When we look at a SRH there isn't another revolver out there that holds 6 454 Casull rounds which I feel is the optimum cartridge for bear defense, the SD of the bullets allow far deeper penentration than larger rounds with this amount of power and being able to download to 45 Colt is a major bonus so there are more reasons that I am into the SRH than just faster reloads.
Befroe the RCMP took over the CFC we used to be able to put more than 2 handguns onto an ATC permit (I had 6 on one permit) so it was far easier to pick and choose which gun to take depending on the area/conditions/environment that I was working in now we don't have that option.
For winter carry there have now been times that I have reconsidered my choice of the Glock 29 10mm this is only due to not being allowed by the CFC to have it on my ATC, I have been considering a small Crimson Trace gripped J frame 5" barreled 5 shot S&W model 60 in 357mag or a 4 3/4" Ruger New Vaquero in 45 Colt my main concern is mtn lion at this time of year so I feel I do not need huge power or a large gun to carry around.
I would like to cover something else here it is about the legalities of open/non-concealed carry what is this what/how are we allowed to carry these handguns what is considered concealed/not concealed?
Basically the handgun has to be in a holster attached to your body the way the law is written it can be attached to the top of your head or onto your boot it is up to you most use the conventional carry method of cross draw/strong side/shoulder holster my personal preference without a doubt is cross draw.
Open/non-concealed carry is just that you must have the handgun/holster in a position on your body where it can be readily seen at all times but that doesn't mean that there are not times that the firearm cannot be protected from the elements when you are in adverse conditions.
I have discussed this with many LEO's about their understanding of this and everyone that has discussed this with me has answered almost the same way the reliability for the firearm is by far the greatest concern so in adverse conditions rain/snow when you have to wear outer protective clothing that covers the holster/firearm it is not an issue they understand that this needs to be done to protect the firearms they do it themselves and cannot expect different from us.
Your area could have a different veiwpoint so this isn't gospel it is my experience.
Basically the handgun has to be in a holster attached to your body the way the law is written it can be attached to the top of your head or onto your boot it is up to you most use the conventional carry method of cross draw/strong side/shoulder holster my personal preference without a doubt is cross draw.
Open/non-concealed carry is just that you must have the handgun/holster in a position on your body where it can be readily seen at all times but that doesn't mean that there are not times that the firearm cannot be protected from the elements when you are in adverse conditions.
I have discussed this with many LEO's about their understanding of this and everyone that has discussed this with me has answered almost the same way the reliability for the firearm is by far the greatest concern so in adverse conditions rain/snow when you have to wear outer protective clothing that covers the holster/firearm it is not an issue they understand that this needs to be done to protect the firearms they do it themselves and cannot expect different from us.
Your area could have a different veiwpoint so this isn't gospel it is my experience.
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
Open carry
What that means can be diificult in winter time. There is absolutely no way that I am 100 percent open carrying in the winter. Even when I carry in the summer and I wear a cruiser vest over a t shirt, it is partially obstructed and probably doesn't qualify for true open carry, however I understand where I am working and don't think that there is a LEO behind every stick.
Greg
What that means can be diificult in winter time. There is absolutely no way that I am 100 percent open carrying in the winter. Even when I carry in the summer and I wear a cruiser vest over a t shirt, it is partially obstructed and probably doesn't qualify for true open carry, however I understand where I am working and don't think that there is a LEO behind every stick.
Greg
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I agree, what passes as legal open carry in the summer, I consider equally legal in the winter or during periods of bad weather at any time of year. I'm using the same holster and gun belt, but more importantly I have not intentionally concealed the gun for some nefarious purpose, I have only protected it so it can protect me.
I had to give up shooting revolvers double action due to a hand injury and arthritis. I would use one of my single action revolvers (Virginian Dragoon or Ruger Blackhawk in .357) But for exactly the same reason Camp Cook went to double action revolvers (fast reloads) I would prefer my STI Spartan in .45 acp. While not an ideal hunting round, I know it will do the job, if i do mine and aim properly. 8+1 and a couple of 7 round backup mags should be enough.
