Lee Enfield No.5 Questions

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello,

I own a November 1944 produced No.5 Mk. I that is matching to bolt, reciever, wood etc. The wood and buttplate show war-time use.

Two questions here

1. When I removed the stock, all metal that is hidden under the wood has been painted "dark forest/military green" and it looks original, there is only a touch of rust on this rifle under the rear site plunger system. It has a Mk.II Singer style sight to 800. What is this paint, does it mean anything, when might it have been applied?

2. The serial number begins with a "C". What is the significance of this? It is followed by a 3 and the rest of the serial.

I bought it from a fellow who told me it saw service in Burma and Singapore with our Tommy friends. Any possible truth to this?
Thanks,
Drachenblut
 
The paint is normal. The No5 Mk1 from Fazakerly are numbered from A to Z then they started with AA etc in 1947. Plenty of good info on surplusrifle in the forum. Tikirocker is doing a serial number list there. Could have been used in South East Asia. Does it have FTR markings?
 
I believe an original No. 5 has the manufacturer’s code: (ROF)F for Fazakerley or M47C for BSA-Shirley.

Anything else may be a "fake".
 
NDB is correct, those are the two factories that built No.5 Rifles. "Jungle carbine" is an unofficial nickname, the No.5 was designed as a "shortened and lightened" version of the No.4 to meet a need identified for airborne operations, but since those pretty much stopped on any great scale, the No.5 was much more widely issued in post-war colonial operations that tended to be in hot, tropical climates, where the handier length and lighter weight were much appreciated.

Since yours was built in late 1944 it may have been in service in Burma before the war ended and certainly could have been used in Singapore and Malaya in the counter-insurgency campaign there in the late 1940s, early 1950s. Green paint protecting the inside of the stock is definitely associated with the Far Eastern theatre.
 
Just the facts, paint and RLO (Raw Linseed Oil) and not BLO ;)

During peace time the Enfield was completely dissembled once per year and inspected by an Armourer and the fore arm repacked with jellied petroleum (Vaseline). During the war everything below the wood line was painted to stop corrosion and reduce maintenance requirements/inspections in the field.

Real Boiled linseed oil is actually boiled which plasticizes the linseed oil making it bond in long molecular strings, this aids in durability and water proofing. Heating oil was in short supply and the linseed oil was not boiled due to wartime shortages and raw linseed oil was issued to the troops.

New stocks were hot dipped in raw linseed oil and allowed to soak during manufacture to ensure the linseed oil penetrated deeply into the wooden stocks.


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Prior to November 27, 1940 the Enfield rifles were inspected by an Armourer four times per year, three mini visual inspections and one complete teardown inspection.

Because of war time equipment and manpower shortages it was decided to paint all metal parts covered or below the wood line on the Enfield rifle and only tear the rifle apart if maintenance was required.

The manual also stated to keep all oil and grease off the bottom of the action, the reason being the receiver would move and shift positions in the critical bedding areas.

After the war the Enfields were painted with Suncorite paint and red jellied petroleum (Vaseline) was no longer used and the old prewar inspection schedule and yearly teardown was resumed.

NOTE: I bought a 1949 South African No.4 and it was packed with jellied petroleum and also bought a 1950 South African No.4 that was just painted with a flat black paint that came off with alcohol. (and Kroil)

The jellied petroleum was out and painting for rust protection was in for wartime conditions.

"Can you expand on that Ed? Is this something we should be doing, and if so, why?"

Yes, don’t crawl around in the mud or walk across rivers with your Enfield. :D

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I've got two no.5's with no paint, rof and m47/c, but my no.1 mk3* does. Should I remove the paint? There was no sign of rust at all, so I brushed off loose material, oiled, and re-assembled. Does removing the paint hurt value?
 
5440fight said:
I've got two no.5's with no paint, rof and m47/c, but my no.1 mk3* does. Should I remove the paint? There was no sign of rust at all, so I brushed off loose material, oiled, and re-assembled. Does removing the paint hurt value?
Click to expand...


Anything you do that alters the original condition hurts the value.

BUT I would be willing to bet that there was another message just like the one I posted above that came out after the war stating to remove the green paint and reapply jellied petroleum or paint it black.
 
Hello gents,

Firstly, thank you for the great replies. It helps quite a bit. Woodbeef, if you could provide a direct URL link to that serial number list tikirocker is setting up, it would be highly appreciated. Now, for the fun stuff!
The rifle has no import markings, and is written properly on the side of the rifle No.5 Mk.I ROF(F) II/44. From examining the rifle after stripping it down, the paint is definitely a khaki green coat on the underside of the metal parts, and the buttpad is stiff with what looks like bone chips in it. The wood under and just around the lip of the metal attachment plate looks much darker, like it was stained (blood?) The staining is irregular. I will upload some pictures of it sometime. What are the chances this rifle saw WWII service?
Thanks,
Drachenblut
 
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