I have a half dozen 1911's, I expect them all to feed whatever ammo I stuff in them. Kind of the point of a 1911 really. - dan
1911 Reliability Surprise!
- Thread starter Doc M
- Start date
Most were not issued. Most were made available for purchase by the LAPD SIS officer.
Those pistols sold at retail are not exactly the same. The pistols sold at retail do not have the firing pin block. The pistols sold to members of LAPD SIS have a firing pin block.
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The Kimber SIS sells for $1729.99 at Wholesale Sports. For that kind of money you should be able to expect a gun that works right out of the box!
As long as people continue to buy these guns and make excuses for the manufacturers, the gun companies have no reason to change and will keep charging premium prices for junk that doesn't work.
it reminds me of the North American automobiles of 20 years ago. You just expected them to have problems, so you kept buying their junk. The car companies had no reason to improve quality until people got sick of it and starting buying high quality Japanese cars instead.
Kimber is laughing all the way to the bank as they see another sucker repair their brand new and expensive 1911 for them and then tell everyone what a great gun it is and what a great company Kimber is.
As long as people continue to buy these guns and make excuses for the manufacturers, the gun companies have no reason to change and will keep charging premium prices for junk that doesn't work.
it reminds me of the North American automobiles of 20 years ago. You just expected them to have problems, so you kept buying their junk. The car companies had no reason to improve quality until people got sick of it and starting buying high quality Japanese cars instead.
Kimber is laughing all the way to the bank as they see another sucker repair their brand new and expensive 1911 for them and then tell everyone what a great gun it is and what a great company Kimber is.
Imagine a HDTV with Kimber quality
Imagine paying $1700 for a HDTV, bringing it home and it doesn't work. So you bring it to a repair shop and $200 later it works. Now imagine telling everybody what a great TV it is and how great the company is and then going out and buying another TV, only to have history repeat itself.
Ridiculous, right!
But we keep doing exactly that with 1911's.
The correct thing to do is return it to the retailer and demand one that works or your money back.
If Kimber gets enough guns back, maybe they'll decide to have some quality control on their product!
If we keep repairing them for them, they'll just keep producing high priced junk! If we don't return them to the retailer, he has no idea anything is wrong and keeps selling their junk!
It's time to stop acting like suckers and act like informed consumers!
Imagine paying $1700 for a HDTV, bringing it home and it doesn't work. So you bring it to a repair shop and $200 later it works. Now imagine telling everybody what a great TV it is and how great the company is and then going out and buying another TV, only to have history repeat itself.
Ridiculous, right!
But we keep doing exactly that with 1911's.
The correct thing to do is return it to the retailer and demand one that works or your money back.
If Kimber gets enough guns back, maybe they'll decide to have some quality control on their product!
If we keep repairing them for them, they'll just keep producing high priced junk! If we don't return them to the retailer, he has no idea anything is wrong and keeps selling their junk!
It's time to stop acting like suckers and act like informed consumers!
- Location
- Scarborough, ON
If I want to buy a gun that needs work to function correctly, I'll buy a milsurp. At least then it'll have some character. When I buy a new gun at retail, it either goes bang or it goes straight back to the store.
I hear you, guys... and I agree with what you're saying. I just don't want to risk a 6-month runaround shipping a gun to-and-fro across the border when I can repair the mistake and send a letter - which won't matter a lick if it's not returned or addressed in any way, since I'll still have a now-functioning gun.
I'll tell you this, there'll be some damn snap caps going through any 1911 (or any other handgun, for that matter) before I purchase in the future! And although I still maintain that it's a damned accurate gun, I'm really leery of going Kimber in the future unless I can shoot the thing BEFORE I buy it.
-M
I'll tell you this, there'll be some damn snap caps going through any 1911 (or any other handgun, for that matter) before I purchase in the future! And although I still maintain that it's a damned accurate gun, I'm really leery of going Kimber in the future unless I can shoot the thing BEFORE I buy it.
-M
Maybe I'm too old school or just picky but if you have to test fire the gun to ensure it works, its not worth the risk. With a near 100 year lineage you'd think the 1911 would be problem free; I guess not.
TDC
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Many of the problems that plague high-end 1911s is due to their use of so-called "match" parts that need to be fitted properly.
I doubt if JMBrowning in his wildest dreams ever thought his pistol design would still be going strong 100 years later, with the possibility of going another 100.
His goal was to design/manufacture the most effective and reliable man-stopping, hardball-fed semi-auto, which he undoubtedly accomplished.
The rub is shooters of today demand a lot of accuracy and reliability from their 1911s which can only be attained by careful manufacturing/fitting. Totally different from JMB's intent for sure. We are making the 1911 into a toy, something it was never intended to be.
Kept in original mil-spec configuration, the 1911 is dead reliable and adequately accurate. An uncle who served as a guerilla in WWII taught himself how to shoot live, moving targets one-handed way before the Weaver or Isosceles stance was developed. I know for sure he was one major contributor to the Jap casualty list via his 1911 and M1.
I do not shoot competitively anymore (not that I was skilled enough to ever be competitive) but I've had my share of 1911s mostly Colt Gov'ts, MKIV Series 80s, Combat Elites, Remingtons, built into race guns and full mod stockers. All I can say is that all these had to be tuned and broken-in after the mods. BTW, all the mods were done to improve accuracy, handling and reliability with SWC target ammo. All my 1911s (except the POS Vega) were 100% reliable with ball ammo.
Just mentioned that to support my theory that JMB's 1911 design works 100% as designed. The problems start after we fiddle with it.
If we can get past the cheap-Chinese-junk stigma of the Norkie 1911, I am confident it will serve as a decent "toy" 1911 in the hands of a competent shooter perhaps requiring only a good trigger job, tune-up and adjustable Bomar or fixed Novak combat sights or whatever is the equivalent these days.
I agree with this 100% - like when I mentioned how I LIKE the tightness of the 'match' bushing that's just a few thou shy of a total interference fit when the pistol is in battery... and the way this thing shoots accuracy-wise, I don't really mind having to put an hour of 'tweak' into it at the end of the day. Am I pissed that it didn't run 'out of the box'? Sure. But am I slitting my wrists over it? Nope.
As with anything, the tighter you make the tolerances the more inherent risk of a malfunction.
-M
Kimber uses MIM cheap small parts including a plastic MSH on most models. I could tell you horror stories about my experiences with Kimber but I digress. I've had to replace small parts straight from the factory a few times. Mass production baby. Is what it is.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
"MIM cheap small past....plastic MSH..." coupled with "Mass production" should mean cheaper production....why then the high-end prices?
Higher-end prices doesn't necessarily mean higher end quality. It just means expensive.
High-value for money is a more meaningful measure.
But to each his own.
Having had this SIS apart completely, I can tell you that there's nothing MIM in the "main" components - and the MSH is definitely not plastic on this one for sure.
I think where the extra $ comes in is when you look at the fit and finish, at least on the model I have; it's a beauty to look at for sure, and it's fitted extremely well (with the notable exception of the extractor, of course... which I've remedied).
-M
I think where the extra $ comes in is when you look at the fit and finish, at least on the model I have; it's a beauty to look at for sure, and it's fitted extremely well (with the notable exception of the extractor, of course... which I've remedied).
-M
I love how people trash the norinco's but my $300 1911 from them shot fine out of the box.... Guess it depends on what you buy them for... to look pretty but not work for 6 times the price.. Or look like crap but work out of the box
Very true. I have two questions for you. How long will the Norinco last(as in round count) compared to other brand name guns
#2 Have you had any work done to your Norinco?
TDC
I have no idea how long the norinco will last... But I doubt it will be a 6th of the high end guns... I've owned several new springfields, colts, and an STI...
The STI feels better then anything I've owned.... The Norinco is on par with the colt... The Springfields felt better but loosing 2 sights on 2 of them within 500 rounds certainly puts a bitter taste in your mouth... lost one just a comptetition so that just added to the complaint.. and customer service really sucked....
I've done nothing to the rinco yet... I have a couple.. But I have a pin kit and a drop in hammer and sear for it if they need it... I've yet to take it down to the pins.. It's only got a couple hundred rounds on it...
I've got a Gunnar-tuned Norc; bought it in March. Have some nice mahogany grips on it. Got nearly 1K rounds through it so far. Only problems were due to my first couple batches of handloads (the Lee data for W231 for .45 ACP is way light). Works fine, has a gorgeous trigger, shoots better than I can. Only thing I'm not perfectly satisfied with is that the sights don't work in complete darkness and so I might have Gunnar replace them with tritium jobbies so that I'll be ready when the zombies rise.
Basically, it does exactly what the 1911 was meant to do; chuck big bullets downrange reliably and accurately at whatever you want to punch nice big holes in. And it does so affordably. While I recognize the fact that 1911's have become a folk art form and admire many examples of that art, I don't feel the need to own a gun that's also a work of art. I've invested the money I'd have spent on the name brand premium on ammo and reloading gear instead.
I'll be sure to post if I ever have any problems with it.
