270win vs 270wsm
- Thread starter B rampton Mike
- Start date
Either of the choices will suit your purposes. From a decent rest, a 270 Winchester will flatten deer size game with authority at 500 yards. If you want a hotrock 270, get the 270 Weatherby magnum.With my rifle and handloads, 140 grain are cruising at 3420 fps across the chrony. 130 grain are at 3550 fps.
LongBomber
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fernie, bc
It's interesting as I have both a 300win mag and a 300 wsm. Loading with various bullets from 165-200 gr they seem to maintain the velocity spread very well, which stays at roughly 100 fps in my two rifles, comparing pretty much max loads in each rifle.
Just from looking at reloading manuals (I have don't have either of the 270's, and have not tried them over my chrony) it looks like the wsm holds roughly a 200fps gain from 110gr to 150 gr bullets.
WOW! You definitely have more disposable income than I do. I just checked Wholesale Sports and Winchester Super X for a 270 Win is $20.99 and for a 270 WSM is $39.99. That's $19.00 difference. I'll worry about the price when one is double the other!
troutseeker
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Prince George, BC
It all depends on how you like your women. Short and squat or tall and lean... I have the .270 Winchester, and I like it! It is plenty of cartridge for everything I hunt and it is a classic to boot! O'Connor would be proud of you if you picked the .270!
Excellent choice of cartridge with over 75 years of great performance the 270 Win is a true classic.
The 270 WSM will give you @ 200 fps greater velocity over the 270 Win actually the power of the 270 WSM is pretty much identical to the 7 mm Remington Mag in many respects another excellent cartridge.
Sure the price of factory ammunition is more with the 270 WSM but as you want the option to take a moose which the 270 Win will easily do the 270 WSM will give you a bit more punch farther done the range.
The 270 WSM looks like the better choice over the classic.
The 270 WSM will give you @ 200 fps greater velocity over the 270 Win actually the power of the 270 WSM is pretty much identical to the 7 mm Remington Mag in many respects another excellent cartridge.
Sure the price of factory ammunition is more with the 270 WSM but as you want the option to take a moose which the 270 Win will easily do the 270 WSM will give you a bit more punch farther done the range.
The 270 WSM looks like the better choice over the classic.
Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Theory behind the WSMs is that they are supposed to be more accurate and have less recoil. Same velocity with less powder in the case.
More accurate by having a more uniform powder ignition in a shorter, fatter case.
WSMs come in a short action. The Winchester is a long action.
Plus the price of ammo is negligible. How long will a box last you? Target shooting, sure. Gone quick. But for hunting it might last you 3-5 years?
More accurate by having a more uniform powder ignition in a shorter, fatter case.
WSMs come in a short action. The Winchester is a long action.
Plus the price of ammo is negligible. How long will a box last you? Target shooting, sure. Gone quick. But for hunting it might last you 3-5 years?
LongBomber
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fernie, bc
I always giggle about the price of ammunition, most of the guys arguing about it don't shoot that much anyway. And you are arguing about the cheapest part of a hunt... my tags cost me more than the 3-4 bullets a year I use hunting. Fuel for 1 weekend of hunting costs more, never mind the camp food... I never worry about the cost of my hunting ammo, heck I spent 250 bucks in draws and tags last year!!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
A long skinny cartridge holds less powder per inch of length than does a short fat one, thus if a long bullet is seated deep into the powder volume, you loose greater volume with the short case than when you seat the same bullet to the same place with a long cartridge, there being no way increase the powder charge higher than the base of the bullet. This problem became quite apparent to me too with the .350 Remington, and I discovered the .300 H&H would do better with 220 gr bullets than the short necked .300 Winchester again because so much powder capacity is lost due to the shank of the bullet extending down into the case, even though the powder capacity is the same diameter in both cases. More recently when I tried to work up a 380 gr load for the .375 Ruger; with this very long bullet the Ruger can never match the .375 H&H.
Taking this into account, when I had my .308 target rifle built, I had the chamber cut with a long throat so I could seat 200 and 220 MKs into the lands without the bullets extending below the neck (the boat tail base sits in the shoulder) and as a result of that and the long barrel length I can get .30/06 velocities with these long bullets, despite a fast twist of 1:8. The problem with this "solution" is that with a short action rifle, a long loaded round is too long for the magazine. This isn't a problem for my single shot target rifle, but it is an issue on a hunting rifle.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Don't mean to hijack, but I could never understand the reasoning behind that. For example, a .444 Marlin which is relatively slow compared to a any .270 would be deemed illegal. But yet, it won't travel as far and it's ricochet is less likely to travel as far as that of the .270. A .284 bullet is not acceptable, but a .277 bullet is (.007") difference. Or is this strictly a "small game" restriction, and what do they define as small game? Again, don't meant to hijack, the OP can tell me to shup-up and I won't be offended.
Hes wrong. Re-read the regs. Theirs many guys in southern ontario that use 30 cals for yotes. Theirs a select few townships that have restriction, but they seem to get the brunt of the attention
shortaction
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoulin Island, Ontario
x2
Recoil will increase about 25% with the 270 WSM which is substantial in my books.
Also magazine capacity will be reduces by at least one with the 270 WSM.
If you sight them both in for 200 yds the cross-wire of your scope would cover the difference at 300 yds.
freddyfour
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County, Ontario
Your right but the townships that are covered by the rule cover the highest population in Ontario so it effects a lot more people then it does areas.
There are more than a select few. Here's the regulation
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/regu/o-reg-663-98/latest/o-reg-663-98.html
Fish and Wildlife Conservation ActFirearms
In an area where there is an open gun season for deer, moose or black bear, if you are the holder of a small game
licence you may not possess or use a rifle of greater calibre or projectile power than a .22 calibre rim-fire rifle
chambered to .22 short, .22 long or .22 long rifle shells or shells loaded with ball or with shot larger than No. 2 shot (or if using non-toxic shot, you may not use steel shot larger than triple BBB steel shot, or bismuth shot that is larger
than double BB bismuth shot), unless you possess a valid licence to hunt deer, moose or black bear as the case may be.
The holder of a small game licence may not use a rifle of greater calibre than .275, except a flintlock or percussion cap muzzle-loading gun, for hunting small game in the counties of Brant, Elgin, Essex, Huron, Lambton, Middlesex, Northumberland, Oxford, Perth and Wellington and the regional municipalities of Chatham/Kent, Durham, the former regional municipalities of Haldimand-Norfolk and Hamilton-Wentworth, Halton, Niagara, Peel, Waterloo and York and the City of Toronto.
taken right from the MNR site
In an area where there is an open gun season for deer, moose or black bear, if you are the holder of a small game
licence you may not possess or use a rifle of greater calibre or projectile power than a .22 calibre rim-fire rifle
chambered to .22 short, .22 long or .22 long rifle shells or shells loaded with ball or with shot larger than No. 2 shot (or if using non-toxic shot, you may not use steel shot larger than triple BBB steel shot, or bismuth shot that is larger
than double BB bismuth shot), unless you possess a valid licence to hunt deer, moose or black bear as the case may be.
The holder of a small game licence may not use a rifle of greater calibre than .275, except a flintlock or percussion cap muzzle-loading gun, for hunting small game in the counties of Brant, Elgin, Essex, Huron, Lambton, Middlesex, Northumberland, Oxford, Perth and Wellington and the regional municipalities of Chatham/Kent, Durham, the former regional municipalities of Haldimand-Norfolk and Hamilton-Wentworth, Halton, Niagara, Peel, Waterloo and York and the City of Toronto.
taken right from the MNR site
LongBomber
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fernie, bc
I guess I got so used to loading compressed loads for my 325, I didn't think of it that way, very good point.
Originally when I started loading for my 325 (HS precision PHL, very short mag length) I had trouble with compressed loads, I had trouble seating bullets to fit the mag with under book loads. I started by lightly tapping the side of the case with an empty case, tried a long drop tube (worked but a bit of a pain) now I touch the case to a vibrating pad, settles the powder in less than a second, no crunch when seating bullets at all. My loads with the 300wsm and the 200gr accubond are not compressed, but they are set on the vibrator to settle the powder charge.
Your effective case capacity is definitely reduced when seating the long bullets deep. My 22-250 has a long throught, I seat most bullets about .2 over the saami max coal. You definelty gain some case capacity seating them long, I am closer to 22-250ai loads than standard 22-250 loads with no pressure signs.
Nope. A more-deeply seated bullet takes up exactly the same extra volume in a pencil-sized case or a tuba-sized case.
The volume of a cylinder (our geometric stand-in for a bullet base) is pi r2 h. 'h' is the amount the bullet sticks into the case, and 'r' is half the diameter of the bullet. Basic math here.
LongBomber
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fernie, bc
You are both right actually...You are reducing the internal case capacity by the same volume with a short or long case, but you may not be able to get in enough powder to maintain your velocity and pressure.
It has to do with how the bullets are seated. If you were putting the powder in after seating the bullet it would not be an issue, but since that's not possible, you seat the bullet on top of the powder charge. Now if you cannot seat the bullet to the right depth due to contact with a heavily compressed powder charge you are out of case capacity. If you could push the powder to the sides (and have it stay) before seating the bullet this would not be a problem.
I get around it in my 325 by touching the case on a vibrating pad, which compacts the powder charge and allows me to maintain my velocity and pressures with the short case and a longer bullet.
