Why Bullpups are SICKKKKK!

olegs69 said:
It gets you the job even if you are not the most qualified.
Noob.;)


Seriously though, looking cool is important. Why else on earth would someone shell out 3k for an unrestricted, Jewish blaster?
I so want a Tavor after this thread.
I'll take the G3 too (dreams).
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This is the question I can't find an answer to. $3000 to look cool is a lot of cake. You'd think a person would look for function related attributes over form. I guess not.

Farmer Harv said:
Seriously TDC? Do you really not get it? Or are you being deliberately obtuse? I'll type it out very slowly again for you...we want and like the Tavor because it's something we want and like. The reasons are inconsequential. The only words that matter are want and like, and you can probably even toss the like as long as the want is there.

Oh, and sorry if I was one of the responders with the discrete ad-hominem attacks. I'll make sure not to be discrete next time.

As to the topic at hand, I have always thought bullpups were way cool (and by cool I mean totally sweet) and even got to fondle an Aug once in 89 or so which really cemented the deal. When I heard about the fully ambidextrous (incorrect marketing terminology btw...it should read: fully convertible to left hand use) Tavor it wasn't long before I had one in my grubby little paws, and will be ordering a non-res FS2000 once they're available also. Will be fun to compare these two, as they are about as far apart in design, concept and "features" as they can get.

Sadly, as much as I'd like to collect the full set (including a non-res Micro Tavor...mmmm) I'll have to pick a favorite and sell the other. Might be like having to choose which child to sell into slavery (which might allow me to keep both rifles now that I think of it), but I don't think the CFO will allow both to stay in the house for more than a short while. Much like some relatives.

So are there any other bullpups in development or the pipeline currently? Or is everyone watching what's happening with the current rifles before going back to the drawing board?
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Harv,
I prefer up front honesty, however a discreet ad-hominem attack or not, its still a weak attempt at supporting ones side of an argument. You indicate that you like bullpups because they're "totally sweet" yet you and others haven't indicated what makes them so sweet, especially for the roles you intend to use them for. If it is simply looks alone that swayed your opinion(s) that's fine. Just don't pretend to understand the value of the attributes that the bullpup selection lacks. Your decision to run a bullpup was made on appearance rather than logic.

TDC
 
TDC said:
This is the question I can't find an answer to. $3000 to look cool is a lot of cake. You'd think a person would look for function related attributes over form. I guess not.
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The non-restricted (shoot anywhere) and short length aspects would be the most prominent features in my mind. The learning curve is also fairly short and it's quite balanced to shoot in terms of weight distribution. Being mostly polymer, it's also fairly lightweight and durable. Integrated BUIS is a plus. Perfect coyote gun.

In terms of non-restricted black rifles, we're limited to the PE90, XCR and Tavor currently, and only one is a bullpup. If we're sticking to .223, the FS2000 and PS90 also fall into this group (albeit with a longer barrel) - but we're easily getting up into the $4k+ range quickly.
 
TDC said:
This is the question I can't find an answer to. $3000 to look cool is a lot of cake. You'd think a person would look for function related attributes over form. I guess not.




Harv,
I prefer up front honesty, however a discreet ad-hominem attack or not, its still a weak attempt at supporting ones side of an argument. You indicate that you like bullpups because they're "totally sweet" yet you and others haven't indicated what makes them so sweet, especially for the roles you intend to use them for. If it is simply looks alone that swayed your opinion(s) that's fine. Just don't pretend to understand the value of the attributes that the bullpup selection lacks. Your decision to run a bullpup was made on appearance rather than logic.

TDC
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So you really don't get it then.

But more importantly, what is the future for .223/5.56 bullpup design? Aside from adjustable LOP there doesn't seem to be much more than evolutionary changes and refinements to be made. Full ambi has been achieved with the FS2000 and Kel-tec, rails, sights, accessories and attachments are readily available and there haven't been any common reliability reports that I've heard. Regardless of what they come up with I'll probably buy it, simply because they truly are Sick. :)
 
TDC said:
I don't understand what armchair commando has to do with anything? Understanding the attributes of a rifle and those that are desirable has nothing to do with being an armchair commando. Such information and knowledge is more akin to understanding ones discipline and the equipment involved. Regardless, if such armchair commando talk is present it should be easy to identify and pick apart. The way I see it. The armchair commando talk is ripe with such statements as "I just want to hunt and plink with a compact non-restricted, cool looking rig". Clearly looking cool is something only serious tier one operators are concerned about.... No?

The only attributes being championed by the bullpup "non armchair commando" crowd are directly linked to the same armchair fantasies of the other side. Those attributes being compact size for CQB and increased effective terminal range. Of course, seeing how only an armchair commando would be interested in such attributes I can't see how these are desirable for the open field varmint hunting plinkers or the paper punching static position shooters. Then again, what would I know. I've posted the pros and cons of each system and the only responses are discrete ad-hominem attacks and the desire for a cool looking rifle. Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never heard of any performance benefits(either firearm or shooter) that arise from "looking cool".

TDC
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My "armchair commando" was not directed at you specifically, or at any other individual member here. Rather, it was simply a comment on the overall tone of the thread.
My apologies if you felt it was directed at you.

Yes, when you highlight my words, it does appear that I am a poser also.:redface:
Perhaps what I should have said was:
I like guns, all guns. I prefer not to be limited to one or two styles only. I enjoy a good quality bolter just as much as anyone, but I do not want a dozen of them, all looking virtually the same. I want variety of firearms, including a bullpup or two.
I would love to go varmiting with an AR-15, but that option is no longer an option. So, I will choose another modern deseign that is not Restricted. Perhaps a bullpup....
And as the gophers are not returning fire, I will not concern myself with all the theoretical points raised here before.

Fair enough?
 
badboybeeson said:
All trigger systems on bullpup guns suck, i have shot just about everyone.
worst would be the FAMAS and the L85 aka sa80
bbb
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The Tavor with the one spring detached wasn't that bad. A bit mushy but still fairly decent. It was a lot better than most stock AR triggers.

The Kel-Tec RFB trigger is supposed to excellent. Then if you go into bullpup bolt actions you have the German DSR-1 and the Desert Tactical copy which are supposed to have excellent triggers. I say supposed to be since I haven't personally shot these firearms and can only go by reviews/second hand information.

...i have shot just about everyone.
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Hopefully no one I know. :p
 
olegs69 said:
Wow Epoxy. You are making me want to sell my M4fogery to fund the purchase of a Tavor.
/Waits for AR lovers to scream blasphemy.
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Every Canadian firearms owner should have an AR. I'm not getting rid of mine. The modularity and versatility of the AR system are it's strong points. You can't just swap uppers/lowers, triggers etc with the Tavor. An AR-15 and AR-10 will always have a place in my gun safe. :D.

In terms of debate though, the AR is really practically millsurp while the Tavor and the new batch of rifles are 21st century technology. You will always find those people who are adamant that the old stuff is always better. Mostly those who haven't shot the new stuff ;)

The STG44 is probably one of the most famous firearms examples of this. They had to hide it's development. The firearms design however was so successful and proven in combat that even those who would have opposed it from being developed had no choice but to accept it.
 
Deckard said:
The "benefits" of this or that $3000 or $4000 non-restricted rifle may be short lived.
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Could be. That's always a concern. But.... keep in mind the longer it's non restricted the better. When they passed C-68 we didn't have the internet like we do today.

Welcome to the information age. It allows firearms owners a much greater chance of stopping this type of thing by organizing and knowing about the problem beforehand. Rather than having it forced down our throats with very little to no defense. Everyday the number of people joining these forums grows. ;)
 
greentips said:
WHy contribute to RRSP since life can end anytime soon.
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:agree: Why bother at all? ;)
In fact ALL guns will become illegal in Canada :kickInTheNuts: and the world will end in 2012. :bsFlag:
Bullpups are EVIL....

DSCF1542.jpg
 
TDC said:
This is the question I can't find an answer to. $3000 to look cool is a lot of cake. You'd think a person would look for function related attributes over form. I guess not. TDC
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What Olegs is trying to say... It is better to have more of a rifle than a lesser one, like an AR ;)

Public, prepare for a Coach's corner by TDC reply...

TDC.jpg


p.s. I can't put TDC's face in contrary of Don's because it may offend him and myself being banned.
 
badboybeeson said:
All trigger systems on bullpup guns suck, i have shot just about everyone.
worst would be the FAMAS and the L85 aka sa80
bbb
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Meh - I've shot rifles with MUCH worse triggers than my Type 97. I'm not saying it's a target rifle by any means but it is pretty good for it's intended use.

Deckard said:
Anyone think all these rifles will not become restricted in the future, or prohibited for that matter?
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Yes, they will be prohib, as will all guns. Unless by some divine intervention we get everything we want from the conservatives...yeah right:rolleyes:
 
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