OK fine ...
at over 60 years of age,
and over 230 lbs of weight,
with arthritis eating away at my joints,
I no longer qualify as any "Armchair Commando" ...
maybe more of a "BIG COMFY COUCH OFFICER CADET".
[;{)
But once upon a time, back when most of you weren't even sperm yet,
I was trained as an Infantry officer [ A LEADER OF INFANTS?] by our esteemed Canadian Armed Farces. And back then, I definitely drank the cool aid ...
or to put it in ol' fashion lingo ...
I was seriously "GUNG HO".
And I have spent a couple of decades as a competitive four gun shooter ...
even if , again, that experience is all ancient history.
But I'd rather be an old "Has Been", who can still learn a few things,
than a bright and shiny "wannabe" who already knows it all.
I have a few personal opinions of my own to share on this subject.
And after all, sharing is good ... sharing is what we all do here, right?
But opinions on the internet are like @$$holes ....
everyone has one, regardless of their qualifications.
Some opinions have more credibility than others ...
as in those who have actually BTDT, rather than recycling "wisdom" they heard from the older boys in the pool hall,
or quoting internet advice on topics they have ZERO personal experience with.
So here are my opinions ....
and yes, I have actually shot an AUG and Tavor
but remember,
FREE opinions on the internet are often worth much less than you paid for them,
and of course,
YPMMV.
Tavor Initial impression:
After lusting after any and all bullpups ever since AWC sent me their catalog with pics of their M14 conversion stock kit, I guess you could call me a confirmed BP cool aid swiller. And if our fearless leaders ever allowed such scary things as bull pup stocks here in the Great white north, I'd definitely have a bull pup M14, either the Short Rifle, or a stock of my own design. But lets not drift off topic into "Unobtainium Land".
Ever since the Tavor was offered as a non-restricted here in Canuckistan, I have had a yen to own one ... even if it meant stepping down into that bad ol' Poodle Shooter caliber.
I finally got to test drive a Tavor, and my initial hands on impression was not disappointing. I liked the Tavor very much, but handling the Tavor immediately made one thing obvious - for users experienced with other systems, familiarisation with this firearm does require relearning/unlearning a different manual of arms, and retraining muscle memory.
1.] One major issue with most other bullpup designs, is the trigger. The Tavor trigger is long on initial take up, heavy, but fairly crisp in final disengagement. It certainly ain't "target" or "sniper" quality, but for a tactical CQB role, it works. I found my first few slow fire shots "interesting" , but then I just forgot about the trigger entirely ... which is a BIG compliment to the Tavor. If you can put up with a Glock trigger then you can put up with the Tavor trigger.
2.] Double taps were NOT instinctive for me at first. The weight of the Tavor is all at the back, so when I tried TRUE double taps [ first shot aimed, second shot following as fast as you can tickle the trigger ] the second round went high right. About 6 - 8 inches high/right at 10 yds. I can get faster/tighter DTs with an AR shorty. Of course this may improve with practice, and some of the other experienced shooters said they had no problems. As usual, your mileage may vary.
If I slowed down slightly, waited for the muzzle to come back down and used two AIMED [ flash sight picture ] shots, the pairs were much closer together, and the times did not seem to increase by much. If I bought a Tavor [ when I buy one? ] I would be thinking about screwing on some kind of really effective compensator. Or hanging some weight out front [ Surefire flashlight? ]. Or BOTH!!!
3.] Balance was “different”, but after a few shots it felt good. The weight felt right between the hands, and the Tavor was quick to shoulder.
4.] While it takes some getting used to, the concept of putting the magazine BEHIND the pistol grip is doable. Remembering exactly where the bolt release was located also was a challenge at first. There is nothing inherently “wrong” about the controls, they are just “different”. After a few mag changes, I was coming around, and I think that practice is all it would take to get me used to the new arrangement.
5.] The test Tavor was made available for several users to shoot, either in a match, against the clock, or just for giggles afterwards. The only reliability issues encountered were magazine related, when some mags pinned to five rounds a bit too short, did not allow full insertion with the bolt forward. Testing was done only at the quick and dirty stuff, with multiple shooters, varied lot of ammunition, and whatever mags the competitors had handy. Other wise, as to be expected from Israeli designed and proven gear, the Tavor turned in a flawless performance.
Bottom Line:
Would I get one?
YES! But until I divest myself of some of the fruits of my recurring AR 10/ Ar 15 addiction, I have no $$$ budgeted for a Tavor. Unless someone out there wants to swap a Tavor for a built up M14, and/or a 6.8 SPC RRA upper with extras, and/or a Glock 23, and/or a Ruger SS 6" revolver, and???,
the Tavor will regretfully have to remain on my 2012 wish list.
Would I recommend the Tavor to others?
Perhaps.
First of all, the Tavors are EXPENSIVE. You have to ask yourself, “do I really need a SERIOUS CQB firearm”. For those who can justify such an expenditure, the Tavor is no more expensive than any other SERIOUS CQB contender. My LMT 10.5" is basically stock, and I like it that way, so my primary CQB gun is a bit cheaper than a Tavor. But any serious accessorising with top quality nasty bits on an AR 15, will result in a cash flow similar or even higher than a Tavor. And since you can get into the AR 15 game with a decent, reliable NORC M4 clone for less than a grand, and gradually improve your AR 15 model a few $$ rt a time, the ARs are definitely more attractive to new shooters or the budget conscious .
However, if you have lots of time in with conventional firearms, also budget for a lot of practice ammo to get you back up to speed with the bullpup system. New shooters might actually have an advantage here, as they will not have to forget old patterns, while learning the new ones. Either way, for the CQB role this firearm was intended for, speed is the main reason for such a weapon, and to get this speed you will need to practice.
But would I completely divest myself of ARs if I got a Tavor??
NOT LIKELY!!!
The AR family has fantastic human engineering so the ergonomics are simply better [ for me ] than any BP I've seen to date. My experience with ARs goes back to the 1980s, and I've owned or built DOZENS of them, in just about every variation you can think of. My all time favorite PRACTICAL rifle is the old Dutch built AI AR 10s, either Sudanes or Portuguese, and decades ago I used to win practical rifle matches with one I shortified into a semi flat top M4 type TACTICOOL TEN. I have tremendous investment in trigger time with the AR family, and that investment is not going to get thrown away.
Also to be considered, is the overwhelming advantage in "MODULARITY" of the AR family, now decades old, and mature, and humungously huge and varied. IMHO, the good ol' AR 10 in 7.62 NATO is still the best designed FULL POWERED Battle Rifle ever. Then there is the AR 10's "baby brother" or as some say "weak sister", the AR 15 in 5.56 Poodle Shooter. I've never shot any human beans with a poodle caliber, but I've shot a few deer ... and they were all instant drops.
When it comes to shooting poodles, it is all about shot placement, Shot Placement, SHOT PLACEMENT!
Ok fine ...
so I don't like the .223 for my personal practical rifle. Maybe that is because, to me, a PRACTICAL rifle for this "ARMCHAIR COMMANDO" includes other critters than poodles ...
as in I have hunted bear and moose with an Ar 10, WAYYYyyyyy back when it was legal to do so.
So , with the immense range of accessories and new calibers available for the AR 15 and AR 10 platforms, it may be possible to have one rifle that may just "DO IT ALL".
I've just started playing with a RRA in 6.8 SPC ... which means I can now in good conscience engage Standard Bred sized poodles, instead of being limited to those teensy Tea Cup poodles. I also built a couple of AR uppers in .300 Whisper, which is another very interesting proposition. Rumors from NZ indicate that suppressed .300 W, with a HEAVY bullet, is a reliable hammer for the NZ Elk, out to about 200 yds. And don't get me started about how 6.5 Grenade is supposedly better after 1000 yds than .308. or how .458 SOCOOL will go right through the engine block of a Mack Truck.
So for guys like me, who like to piddle around with different calibers, the AR is ideal.
And the AR family will vbe around for a longggg time to come.
HOWEVER,
back to the TAVOR ...
I would like to hear from experienced Tavor shooters how they find their Tavor compares with a shorty AR on quick and dirty stuff?
Do you find the "double taps" spread out significantly over DTs with an AR??
And does this get better with practice??
thanks
[;{)
LAZ 1
Wow is all I can say at the moment...
