I have a Winnie 1894 dated 1900 in 38-55 and am preparing to load it with cast bullets. Have had the barrel slugged at 0.378 but a gunsmith here in Vancouver. Question is should I be loading this in BP or Smokeless powder? From what I hear cleaning the mess from BP is a lot of frequent work. How true is this? Seems to be a lot of BP entheusiasts. Any advantages?
38-55
- Thread starter bogie
- Start date
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
You will never be able to over load it with black and great accuracy can be had too.
A lever gun can be a pain to clean too though. You will need to clean every time that you shoot black without fail. Even if its just one round. The fouling absorbs moisture from the air and proceeds to rust the heck out of it.
A gun dating to 1900 should be fine with the right smokeless loads if its in good shape and many people here are using loads that keep the pressures down. Depends on the effect that you want and how much effort you want to put up with.
A lever gun can be a pain to clean too though. You will need to clean every time that you shoot black without fail. Even if its just one round. The fouling absorbs moisture from the air and proceeds to rust the heck out of it.
A gun dating to 1900 should be fine with the right smokeless loads if its in good shape and many people here are using loads that keep the pressures down. Depends on the effect that you want and how much effort you want to put up with.
You can load it with either. Black powder is more enjoyable to shoot with its smoke and boom, but you do have to make sure you clean your bore when you are done, and if you are shooting a lot of rounds in one session, you should run a wet rag through the bore every 5 or 10 shots. Try not to get the wet sludge running down into your action. When I clean BP out of a Winchester leveraction, I rest the buttstock on a table, holding the muzzle end with the gun upside down, so that nothing runs down into the action while I'm swabbing the bore.
I shoot nothing but black from my 1894, and clean-up is a breeze. Lee makes a mould especially for the .38-55 that works great in my .379 bore. I load 48gr. of FFG through a 24" copper drop tube, then a thin wad cut from a cereal box. The powder is then compressed with a hard cast bullet, turned down so it slips right into the case. After compression, I push the case mouth into a thin sheet of beeswax, then put in a wax paper wad cut from a milk carton. The bullet is seated, and lightly crimped. The rounds go off with a nice "CRACK", leave very little fouling, and will hit the 200m. gong with all 20 rounds, no cleaning. The action stays nice and clean, and I always stick a folded piece of cardboard in the open action before cleaning. Then one patch soaked in cheap Fields window cleaner, a dry patch, and a few passes with a brush soaked in Hoppes #9. Dry patch, then oil. Always degrease the bore before shooting, as any trace of petroleum can make the fouling hard. I lube the bullets with 50/50 beeswax and Crisco. Don't use toilet gaskets to make lube, most of them are now synthetic beeswax. (Synthetic=petroleum)
I have a trapdoor springfield in 38-55 which I load with 9.5 grains of Green Dot and a 245 gr cast bullet. I think I probably get around 1100 fps but have never checked. The loads are mild and accurate out of that gun, so for the time being I stick with them.
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
They aren't a pain to clean. Unless you fire squibs and get lots of blow back into the action, only the barrel and chamber need cleaning. In fact, in the past I have loaded a couple of rounds with a few grains of Red Dot, Cream of Wheat, wads and a beeswax bullet. Fired them after my black powder shooting, and clean up was as easy as smokeless. I also use black almost exclusively in my .32WCF, and fouling is almost non-existent. Why??
The nearest I can figure, 18gr. of FFFG just doesn't produce much fouling to begin with. The old '92 doesn't even require a window cleaner soaked patch after shooting, I just clean as if it were a smokeless rifle. Thirty rounds fired in one session, and I could still hit a soup can at 100 yards.This round, the 38-55 was factory loaded for a few years with BP and then the factory switched to Smokeless. Dont know when they started using jacketed rounds but that is what is currently available if you buy factory Winchester ammo. I have a set of Cowboy dies now and plan to load cast shortly as I will soon run out of ammo. What I would like to do with this is load up to the 1700fps limit with smokeless and see just what I can get out of the old girl without causing damage. May go to BP but for now one thing at a time. Current ammo is loaded to 1300fps and it shoots that really well out to 100m so far. I am following this and the other chat you are all currently involved in too. Much to learn and cautious to proceed. Have to read up on loading cast. Thanks for the input. At over $60 a box for ammo I will have to reload soon.
I would strongly advise you to AVOID such high velocity loads in such an ancient rifle! Remember, the .38-55's don't have nickel steel barrels, and the actions are soft. I have a 1902 vintage 1894 rifle, and the previous owner fired about three boxes of the old C.I.L. factory loads. They were 1600+ fps, if I remember right. They increased the headspace in the old rifle quite a bit! Also, the sights become useless when you increase the velocity much above the factory loads. You would need either a taller front sight, or shorter rear sight.
Ben is right but I clean mine easily using a funnel from the breech end. I put the muzzle in a bowl on a piece of wadded up paper towel then pour the barrel full from the breech with boiling hot water with some dish soap in it. I let this out after a few seconds and repeat it. I then use a pull through from the breech. I use my last patch with a protectant. ...I do use SR4759 for my smokeless loads and find it excellent. There are loads for the 38-55 with SR4759 on line. Dave
I think using boiling water may be a mistake; I have heard claims of fine pitting in muzzle loading barrels cleaned that way (after hundreds of cleanings). I use hot water out of the tap in my guns and so far do not seem to have had a problem with pitting
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
Mooncoon, every one to his own ideas! The boiling hot water is the method of choice with most people I know. Hot tap water may clean as well but the really hot stuff gets all the metal so hot that it dries completely in a matter of seconds leaving no moisture behind. As a matter of insurance I always go back a few days later and run a cloth through again with "Bore Butter". I have not see any rust let alone pitting. The main thing is to clean them quickly and thoroughly. Dave
So Bushman, where could I go to find out what realistic limits are for my rifle. The manuals say not to exceed 1700fps and considering their conservative nature one would assume that should be acceptable. Who knows this for sure where I can see maybe something in print. Any sites? I would like to get as much bang as I can but blowing up the fort to keep the indians out is not common sensible.
Personally, I wouldn't push that vintage of rifle past 1500. The early model 1894's are quite soft, and tend to stretch quite a bit. If you get a later one, post Great War vintage, they seem to be less stretchy. I don't even use any jacketed bullets in my 1902 rifle. How is the headspace in your rifle? Many 1894's that have been shot a lot with smokeless have excessive headspace. Also, does your rifle have smokeless or black powder sights? Is the barrel marked "Nickel Steel'? A good place to start for loads would be to find what's listed for a "B" grade Marlin 1893. They used similar steel to the non-nickel Winchester barrels.
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Blackhorn 209 should be just the ticket....
After a couple of years of shooting 38-55 i found that im loading 80% of my ammo with BP and rest with 7gr of Red Dot.Why?BP is A LOT more fun too shoot,it creates interest in BP cartrige shooting on the range and i think is on par if not cheaper than smokeless loads. As for cleaning thats what Red Dot loads are for.They seem to clean barell just about perfect and all rifle needs is a good wipe with light oil-inside and out.
Than again ,im shooting single shot -not a lever action.
Thx
Than again ,im shooting single shot -not a lever action.
Thx
