Idpa q&a

[stormbringer]

Stormy......I see what you mean. Do you know if this has been challenged in court anyplace?

Well I would hope that our side would not challenge it as it is our advantage at the moment and how we got the LAR case to go our way.

Mind you we LOST the STORM argument before that which is what opened the door for the interpretation that I have given.

It was the RCMP who made the STORM decision which was then shoved in their face with the LAR magazine.

They simply cannot step back from it now without looking like complete idiots.

 

[stormbringer]

Its simple handgun not more then 10 rounds mags for pistol and for revolvers no more then 10 rounds cylinder

Ummmm

No.........

BTW.........Did I mention that you are wrong?

You are in error?

You are factually incorrect?

Perhaps you might want to read some of the commentary above and reconsider your post.

( mind you in the case of a revolver you might have a point)

 

[Northern Pirate]

...

 

[Canuck44]

See Storms post above, it covers it off. Personally, I don't have a glock 40 so I have never tried it, but from what I hear, feeding is still reliable even with 13-14 rounds in a .40 mag.

With due respect to Storms post, the maximum capacity for handgun magazines in Canada is 10 rounds. Magazines capable of containing more than 10 rounds must be permanantly pinned to 10 rounds. With the exception of the *Lee Enfield (10) and M1 Garand (8) rifle magazines can only hold 5 rounds. There are magazines made for the AR 15 pistol and marked as such can hold 10 rounds.

With that in mind it is legal to have a 10 round magazine in your handgun (pistol) with one in the chamber bringing total availabe rounds to 11.

I am not sure where Stormbringer is coming from but that is the law. I have 16rd mags designed for my Tanfoglio 9MM that are pinned to 10 rounds. If you get caught with magazines capable of holding more than allowed you are going to be in a world of hurt.

Stormbringer please copy and post that portion of the Act that says otherwise. The portion copied above is clear. "
(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada." The bolded portion is ferring to the cartridges not the magazine.
__________________

Take Care

Bob
*There maybe another exception but I am not aware of any other

 

[Steve David]

Many people like Steve David it would appear have fallen into the trap that occurs when you do not actually read the laws yourself. It is assumed that the writers of the law wanted to actually limit handguns to 10 rounds and semi rifles to 5 rounds. However that is NOT what they ended up writing as can clearly be seen by the bolded section in Onagoths post above.

I fell into no trap Storm, what I did was simply ask an honest question and in return got a typical Storm reply that you twisted into a way for you to once again lay down sarcastic replies.

 

[JB]

Ummmm

No.........

BTW.........Did I mention that you are wrong?

You are in error?

You are factually incorrect?

Perhaps you might want to read some of the commentary above and reconsider your post.

( mind you in the case of a revolver you might have a point)

no more then 10 rounds in a handgun mag where it say its ok to put more then 10 rounds of 9mm in a 40cal mag ??

 

[Onagoth]

The interpretation above is confirmed by the RCMP. They acknowledge that the LAR 15 pistol mag is legal even when used in a rifle. This may be the same as loading 9mm cartridges into a .40 mag to get higher capacity.

With that in mind it is legal to have a 10 round magazine in your handgun (pistol) with one in the chamber bringing total availabe rounds to 11.

I don't believe the magazine becomes a prohibited device just because it is loaded with different ammo. The magazines are pinned based on what they are designed to hold. Does loading them with different ammo make them prohibited? If thats the case, does that mean everyone with .40 mags has to throw them out or alter them because they are prohibited when loaded with 9mm?

 

[Onagoth]

If you get caught with magazines capable of holding more than allowed you are going to be in a world of hurt.

Every single .40 magazine ever designed is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of 9mm, does that make them prohibited?

 

[Canuck44]

Listen I am not going to argue this. There are magazine out there that are pinned to 10 rounds. Without the pin they would hold more but the most the mag can hold is 10 roounds.

If you load more than 10 rounds in the magazine you are breaking the law, period. Read the act....slowly. Load your .40 cal with 9MM rounds and after you load them bumpo the bottom of the mag and watch them fly through the air.

Take Care

Bob

 

[stormbringer]

Listen I am not going to argue this. There are magazine out there that are pinned to 10 rounds. Without the pin they would hold more but the most the mag can hold is 10 roounds.

If you load more than 10 rounds in the magazine you are breaking the law, period. Read the act....slowly.

Take Care

Bob

Sure thing........now be so kind as to POST what you want read.

Onagoth has posted the portion that makes my perspective CORRECT.

Where is yours?

 

[Onagoth]

Listen I am not going to argue this. There are magazine out there that are pinned to 10 rounds. Without the pin they would hold more but the most the mag can hold is 10 roounds.

If you load more than 10 rounds in the magazine you are breaking the law, period. Read the act....slowly.

Take Care

Bob

Well, its a simple question, the law is written to prescribe certain magazines as being prohibited. Possession of those magazines is an offense. If a standard capacity magazines that is designed to hold .40 caliber ammo has been permanently altered to hold 10 rounds of .40 caliber ammunition, does it being capable of being loaded with 13 rounds of 9mm ammunition make it a prohibited device?

Yes or no?

 

[stormbringer]

no more then 10 rounds in a handgun mag where it say its ok to put more then 10 rounds of 9mm in a 40cal mag ??

When it says that you can DESIGN a magazine that can hold 10 rounds of 40 quite simply.

If your magazine can hold 10 rounds of .40 then due to simple mathematics it MUST be able to hold more than 10 rounds of 9mm.

 

[stormbringer]

Well, its a simple question, the law is written to prescribe certain magazines as being prohibited. Possession of those magazines is an offense. If a standard capacity magazines that is designed to hold .40 ammo has been permanently altered to hold 10 rounds of .40 ammunition, does it being capable of being loaded with 13 rounds of ammunition make it a prohibited device?

Yes or no?

No becuase it is not the ACT of loading more than 10 rounds that is an offence.

The offence is HAVING a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds of the type for which the magazine was originally designed.

It is the MAG that is the prohibitted device

If you use Cannucks logic then EVERY single magazine out there that is larger than say 9mm would be illegal because they can hold more than 10 rounds of 9mm.

Of course it only really works with 9mm in .40 magazines and then only in SOME cases in which the feed lip design accomodates both calibers with no modification what so ever.

If you have to MODIFY a magaizine in any way shape or form then you would be in contravention of the law because it is no longer in the state in which it was DESIGNED.

 

[Steve David]

does it being capable of being loaded with 13 rounds of 9mm ammunition make it a prohibited device?

Yes or no?

If you load it with 13rounds of 9mm yes.

 

[Canuck44]

When it says that you can DESIGN a magazine that can hold 10 rounds of 40 quite simply.

If your magazine can hold 10 rounds of .40 then due to simple mathematics it MUST be able to hold more than 10 rounds of 9mm.

So what! The mag is legal because it can only hold 10 rds of .40cal.

Take Care

Bob

 

[stormbringer]

If you load it with 13rounds of 9mm yes.

Please point out anywhere in any law, regulation or anything in which it says that..

Please I am dying to see it.


Once again the ACT of loading a magazine is not illegal what so ever.

MERELY POSSESSING a magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds of the caliber for which it was ORIGINALY DESGINED FOR is illegal.

By your logic

EVERY SINGLE .40 cal mag must be destroyed!!!

 

[FrankieT]

Listen I am not going to argue this. There are magazine out there that are pinned to 10 rounds. Without the pin they would hold more but the most the mag can hold is 10 roounds.

If you load more than 10 rounds in the magazine you are breaking the law, period. Read the act....slowly. Load your .40 cal with 9MM rounds and after you load them bumpo the bottom of the mag and watch them fly through the air.

Take Care

Bob

OK. Let's try to clear this up. I'll use Glock as an example.

I have a Glock 22 (.40 cal). The mag is capable of only holding 10 rounds of .40 cal. Try as I may, I cannot get any more than 10 rounds of .40 cal in there. This is a perfectly legal mag since it can only hold 10 rounds what it was intended to hold. Now lets say I get creative (or careless), and mix up my Glock 17 (9mm) and Glock 22 mags and load 12 9mm rounds into the Glock 22 mags. The mag is already legal. No law is broken.

People are confusing what the law is defining. The law is defining a prohibited device, not a prohibited action. There is no law stating that a person cannot load a mag with more than 10 rounds.

Take a 5 round AR mag. I can probably stuff at least 15 .22lr in there. Sure it won't function properly, but I can still do it. Does that mean that the mag is prohibited? Is the act prohibited? NO. People are just getting their panties in a ruffle because the .40/9mm is a more practical (and viable) application.

 

[Onagoth]

I have read most of the firearms act and relevant sections of the Criminal Code.

Unfortunately, I could not find anything saying it was a crime to load magazines with ammunition, no matter how much fits. The only thing I could find was that there are restrictions on certain magazines designed to hold more than 10 cartridges of the caliber they were originally designed for, as I posted above..

If there is any cases or other references, I'd be happy to take a look

 

[stormbringer]

So what! The mag is legal because it can only hold 10 rds of .40cal.

Take Care

Bob

Yes.........YES YES!

Now.........if it is legal because it is MARKED as a .40 and can only hold 10 rounds of .40 it is legal........FULL STOP.

Now if it happens that that VERY SAME LEGAL MAG can also hold 14 rounds of 9mm rounds it does not change the legal status of that magazine.

It is STILL LEGAL FULL STOP.

A legal mag is a legal mag is a legal mag........end of story.

 

[Canuck44]

No becuase it is not the ACT of loading more than 10 rounds that is an offence.

The offence is HAVING a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds of the type for which the magazine was originally designed.


If you use Cannucks logic then EVERY single magazine out there that is larger than say 9mm would be illegal because they can hold more than 10 rounds of 9mm.

Of course it only really works with 9mm in .40 magazines and then only in SOME cases in which the feed lip design accomodates both calibers with no modification what so ever.

If you have to MODIFY a magaizine in any way shape or form then you would be in contravention of the law because it is no longer in the state in which it was DESIGNED.

Stormbringer with all do respect you are talking nonsense. The maximum amount of amunition you are allowed to load in a pistokl mag is 10 rds. I am not sure what point you are trying to mag and frankly don't care.

Take Care

Bob