2010 PGW Defence Technologies Inc. Manitoba F Class Rifle Championship

prairieguy:

I know asking questions gets some people upset. Again, that's not the intent, but I don't know how else to ask the question.

I read the ad about a match. Saw the cost and added it up. The ad said, we are going to collect between $16,000 and $25,000, and "go to a web site for the prize information". I went to the web site, it didn't work.

I've shot at a few different gun matches but haven't been involved in one where the match committee was employed by the match and as such paid. Pretty much everything I've shot at has had people volunteer their time.
However I have shot at matches where there was nothing posted what was done with the fees and subsequently there was nothing given for prizes. I'm simply trying to find out a bit, before committing my funds or as you've offered me as a new shooter to your area to, "stay home".

I see the mentioned web site 'to see for further information' on the prizes has been removed. You are now advising that there will be $2000 in prize money distributed to the competitors for prizes. Thank you for the information.

As mentioned, it is simply my opinion as to the largest prize and draw prizes. The sponsor has their wishes for their product and it is admirable. I thank them for their generous offer to shooters. My opinion is still the same, draw prizes suck. If it is discouraging to new shooters to have the top shooters win all the prizes, the new/less qualified shooters should practice more. But that is a whole other issue, not related to this match.
Any sponsor getting product to the shooters, is a good thing.

I knew my asking questions was going to be hard on someone's ego, therefore I prefaced it with my own observation. I ain't here to "rain on your parade" but I personally would like to have an idea where my money goes.

I've personally shot at matches with $75,000 worth of prizes, Governors as guest speakers at banquets, etc etc and matches where you get a hardy hand shake for being the Aggregate winner. They are all fun. But it appears you like asking for my money but you don't like telling me what I'm getting for it. My question wasn't a personal shot at anyone, but you are obviously taking it as one. I don't mind the fact that without pre-paid entry money or a pool of existing funds, it is extremely hard to budget for prizes. Like I mentioned, I've been there too. You posting the primary break down of, cash per X number of competitors is sufficient. I'm not asking for an accounting and cost estimate for port-a-potties.
The added, "Don’t ask for a more detailed breakdown, like it or not, I’m not going to provide one." isn't in the best spirit of a match program.

I guess, rather than explaining my reason for asking the question, I could have simply asked, "what's happening with the entry fee", and left my opinions about draw prizes to myself.
My "naysaying and complaining" could have been answered fairly easily.

Sorry for questioning 'you', and I promise not to bother you in the future.
 
Koldt,

I apologise for the fact the link didn't work. Sh*t happens. I tried to fix it but for some reason I can't get it to hotlink from CGN. The link worked fine from other places I've posted it. Besides, if you read the sentence, all I was doing was directing people to PGW's website for info about the gun, not to a prize list. The match bulletin and registration form are now live on the MPRA website at www.manitobarifle.ca

You seem to be missing some of my other points. You appear to see some nefarious plot to defraud you of your money in exchange for no benefit and that there's some element of greed involved in the hosting of the match.

I doubt I can put your mind at ease but just so you know, the match committee is made up entirely of volunteers, none of whom are getting paid a dime to pitch in and organize a match primarily for the benefit of strangers. In fact everyone on the organizing committee that wants to shoot the match will have to pony up the entrance fee too. No one's getting a free ride. The only people getting paid are the ones doing the grunt work during the match, doing things like pulling targets or being a range officer. Do you really expect people to take four days or even one day out of their summer to stand in a concrete bunker and yank targets or stand in the hot sun keeping everyone safe without some kind of compensation while you lay at the firing line and enjoy the fruits of their labour?

I strongly suspect that the "volunteers" you write about seeing at other matches got something out of it. While they may not have seen cash in hand I bet that an honorarium in an amount equivalent to their labour cost was paid to a charity or service club instead. If it was a case of having everyone that shot chip in and patch or pull targets, etc then sure the fees stay down and no one gets paid. In this case I deliberately decided to let the shooters relax, enjoy the event and not have to worry about providing slave labour too.

If you'd like to come and pull targets for free, I'll gladly reduce the match fee for everyone accordingly or add the equivalent amount to the prize payouts.

I concede that my remark about not providing a more detailed breakdown was gratuitous and not in the spirit of the event. I've removed it. Notwithstanding that, until I have a count of competitors and which classes they are competing in, I am unable to determine what the exact prize payouts will be.

For the sake of comparison, the US F class nationals in Sacramento, Ca in March 2010 cost $180 US for three shorter days of shooting (fewer rounds fired). Competitors also have to pull targets in between shooting their own relays. All that fee buys you is access to the match and handshake if you win. There are no included meals, no shirt and no cash prizes. Tack those costs onto the US match fee and you'll meet or exceed the Manitoba match fee.

Finally, in all seriousness, I've been as open and up front as possible about the match. No one on the match committee is in this for the money and we sure don't need the extra work and aggravation. I got this off the ground and recruited some more shooters to pitch in solely because of my enjoyment of F class shooting and a desire to have a top flight match in my backyard instead of having to travel outside the country to compete at one.

I posted the match schedule and explained very carefully what was being provided with the exception of prize payouts (is, meals, shirt, target marking service etc.). What more do you genuinely need to know about how your match fee will be spent beyond that?
 
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Les,

Your efforts to get this undertaking off the ground are to be commended. Just getting a commitment from St. Charles was huge, and being the face of any undertaking where significant $$ is involved always draws concern and comment. A huge thank you for takign this on.

I, for one, am very, very excited to see this match happening. Participating in such a match raises everybody's game, and this is a fantastic chance for shooters from all over to come put faces with names, meet others, pic folks' brains, and put up or shut up when it comes to shooting.
The format sounds full, but managable, especially given the catering arrangements.

Count me in.
 
Les, I would suggest that the complaining is NOT from within the F-Class ranks. Typical anonymous, faceless internet forum dynamics. I have heard nothing but excitement and praise for your efforts. We all know that there are elite shooters within our discipline, and if we gave prizes like that to only the winners, the up-and-comers would not bother. This is not a shoot designed with neophytes in mind. It is the type of exclusive match that we have been begging for.

I fully support your plans, and have nothing but praise for your efforts. I WILL be there!! The only question at this point is how we BC shooters will travel.
 
For what it is worth I have know Les for many years, he was one of our first customers and like a lot of our customers he has become a good friend. Les served as director and Treasure for the Fort La Bosse Classical Arms Gun Club and it was largely due to his efforts that our clubs finances were put in order. Our interests have moved in different directions, mine into African hunting , Les into F class competition. Sadly this has meant our paths have grown apart over the years but we met again at Gagetown and we picked up where we left off and downed a few beers.

Les should be fully supported in his efforts to get this match going, he is also an honest competitor and his character is beyond reproach, we should all pitch in and support him.
 
I know some good lads from Nunavut are going down to try their luck out in this competition ... man I wish I could attend ... :D

Otokiak
Rankin Inelt, NU
CANADA
 
I'd love to take a road trip into Manitoba this summer for the event but it's hard for me to commit this far in advance.....and usually by the time I know I can attend the slots are all full...:(. Kudo's to all the organizers and to the people willing to donate prizes to the event. Good luck to all the shooters.
 
I sit on the MPRA Board of Directors and on the organizing committee for this event, so I have an idea what's going on here. Les has poured in huge (!) amounts of effort into getting this competition off the ground. Les has done an excellent job with the budget for this event. Being a cheap Mennonite, I scoured each budget line to look for a better deal. However considering what it costs to put on an event like this it's obvious that the fees are more than fair.

Like some others have already said, good job Les! I know that all of the participants will have a great time.

Cheers.

Colin H.
 
Great job Les for getting this off the ground. I'll submit my entry as soon as funds permit... then lose sleep trying to figure out a way to afford the airfare, hotel & car rental.
This should be an awesome event. I have no chance of winning but do have a chance at the Coyote. All-in for the fun.
 
WOW!

:dancingbanana:I'm incredibly excited about this match and I don't even shoot F-Class!:dancingbanana:

Thank you very much to all those who took the effort to pull this match together. All the hard work so that WE can all come out and enjoy our rifles just a little more.

Now...

How does this F-Class thing work exactly?:confused::confused:
 
Rather than try to explain all the intricacies of F class shooting in this thread, please go have a look at the thread posted by Obtunded in the precision rifle Forum titled "...I think I would like to try competitive precision shooting". It's got everything a newbie needs to know about F Class.

He's even posted pictures of what you can expect to see on the range. Follow the link to read it.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373968&highlight=class
 
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Hey Tom, if you have any questions, feel free to drop me a line! It would be great to see you there, and I am fairly sure you will be hopelessly sucked in after that!

Cheers,

Ian
 
GSoD, that was good watching those northern boys beat us southerners(?) with our own equipment, now that they have had a few weeks practice this year should be really interesting.:D:D:D
 
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