.308 Reloading moa what do to next for submoa?

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msg.drew

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I was out today testing and shooting with some friends... Had some first time shooter banging gongs at 400 yards with the 223 within the first 3 shots and the gong measures 6"X6"...I recently got a 308 bolt action and was out testing some loads for it today.

700 SPS Tactical 20"
Leupold Scope
Haris Bipod
Winchester New Brass
Winchester Large Rifle Primers
IMR 3031
Nosler 168grain Custom Comp HPBT
COL 2.900

Wind not a factor, temp -3

Range exactly 100 yards from the end of the barrel to the target.

I did 5 shot groups with 5 different powder charges... Which do you think shows promiss for further exploration...I hear these hogue plastic stocks can flex and not allow the barrel to be free floating...

Powder charge 39.0 Grains
Measures 1.183" 5 shots
390.jpg


Powder charge 39.7 Grains
Measures 1.034" 5 shots
397.jpg


Powder charge 40.5 Grains
Measures .700" 5 shots
405.jpg


Powder charge 41.25 Grains
Measures 1.407" 5 shots - There was some serious shooter error here I went from aiming at 1" circle to 2" big so this result is poor.
4125.jpg


Powder charge 42.0 Grains
Measures .860" 5 shots
420.jpg


I am guessing I should try the test again and see if the results mirror this test before going futher...seems like there could be a sweet spot between 40.0-42.0 grains... out of 25 shots the size of the entire 25 shots whats under 1.5"
 
That 39.7 looks like its your sweet spot. All five shots are in a nice vertical line basically, which could be attributed to breathing. I bet those tighten right up after a few breathing exercises.
 
I was holding my breath or trying to control my breath... during shooting. I dont have a lot of time to spend shooting normally try to get out every saturday but its been 3 weeks since I was last out.

I was thinking of going 39.7, 39.9, 40.1 ,40.3, 40.5 and taking 5 shot groups with those combos and seeing if there is a sweeter spot in there.

My trigger is about 2 lbs and the gun is very light with the scope and fact that the stock is plastic and barrel is only 20" long it jumps pretty good on the table.
 
I dont know what everyone is hooked on varget, I have and abundant supply of 3031 its cheap I can use it in my 223's, it seems to be very consistant, and produced a .700" group...Didn't the army use as simmilar stick powder in there loads...

Looks like I will have to sell off some of this 3031 and get some varget to try.

Anyone notice that the smaller the object your aiming at the smaller your groups are... for example I was aiming at a roofing nail head about 1/2" and thats when some groups droped below 1 inch
 
msg.drew said:
I dont know what everyone is hooked on varget,
Click to expand...

because people like to shoot bullet/powder combinations that are proven effective, would be my main guess

oh and about aiming smaller object (and I say this on a personnal experience and also note I'm a terrible shooter in terms of internet commando (I won't shoot sub moa all day)): I used to take aim on a dot, then I moved on to a cross, which improved my groups like you experienced. I line up my crosshair on the cross and adjust turrets to have a POI slightly to the right to keep the point of aim intact
but then again, I'm not a competition nor a sub-moa shooter so you take some and you leave some ;)
 
mmm thats funny... my target I made myself are simmilar to what you do... I have big cross hair on a 8.5 x 11 with with a 1 inch dot. I line up so my crosshairs cover the target cross hairs seems to work well only thing I might do next time is make the dot 1/2"

I just laugh when I hear stories of 1/2moa stock guns and shooters who get out once a year... I know how hard it is to shoot 1 moa in real world conditions no vices leadsleds real world shooting... Take my bipod away and I would be luck to shoot 10moa at 100... just kidding ok maybe 5moa
 
oh I will definitely admit to 10 moa freehanding a 308 (maybe more ;)), I just can't do it. When I got my moose this fall I had the gun rested on a treestump and it was less than 100m away:)
But when I'm at the range shooting some 155gr hpbt, I use a rest for front support and a sandbag for rear support
 
Maybe 6 more inches of barrel is what you need...

Stock Rem 700P at 100yrds.
5 shot group

168gr Hornady BTHP
43gr Winchester 748
OAL... Can't recall, but Remmingtons are notorious for longish throates so my OAL may mean nothing to your rifle...

targetat100.jpg
 
charles
This year deer hunting we have to use shotguns because of the area we hunt... I have a custom cantilever thumbhole pump shotgun leupold 2-7x33... I shot at one deer 200 yards away free hand 9 shot over 5 min. The thing was so stupid the bullets must have been zinging all around it and it didnt move until the 9th miss and it ran away. Seemed everytime I had my slug barrel on they where too far away. I know with the 308 rifle i would have got it but we cant use it.

I practiced all year with my slug gun at 125 yards I could shoot 3 shot groups darn near touching but the drop on my own handloaded custom slugs was to much at 200 yards. I was guessing with hold over which is never fun.
 
667
Yah my bullet col is super long almost 3 inches lol
300 meters thats some darn fine shooting, before I go barrel swaping since I have a 223 with 26" and it looks better then this 20" I want to give the 20" a shot.
 
If you want to get the most out of your reloads for accuracy you may want to try to load and test using some of the following techniques.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/reloading-load-tuning-1.php
http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/
http://02b0516.netsolhost.com/blog1/?p=43

Above are some similar ways of organized load development that can work with any calibure, bullet, case, primer, powder, and seating depth length. Once you find something shooting well you can keep it where its at, or do some fine tweaking to get it just right. I would suggest using quality components that you willl have no problem sticking with... because if you change out any thing (case, powder) its back to the drawing board. When picking a powder consider whether you will be shooting with it in the summer, and winter. Some powders will be affected less then others when it gets hot/cold and would require less adjustment from summer to winter to get shooting at its sweet spot. So why even start with them?

I have moved away from load development at 100 yards and try to get out to at lest 300yrds when testing. The only thing that you have to watch for at 300yrds plus is now the wind comes into play with your groups, much more so then 100/200 yards anyway. You might want to leave the bipod at home for load testing and go with a steadier rest, and bench, as your going to want every thing to be at its best for this task. Once you got "the" load sorted out then you can load up a ton of the same and shoot off of what ever you want.

Now if this as all too much of a chore you could always load up some around the 39.7 range that you have there, see how they shoot at 300yrds. Pick the best at 300yrds and tweak the seating depth and you would probably have a good load. Your 42 gr load also looks to be closing up, and I wonder what it would be like with .3,.6 grs more?

Reloading can be fun I swear! ;)
 
Get yourself some Varget or H4895. Lots of published loads for these powders, Varget will be in the 45-47 grain mark.

Vertical stringing at 100 (and beyond) means the load needs tuning so that 39.7 grain load either needs seating depth adjusted or powder load adjusted.
 
i was getting some sub with the short barrel on the sps tacticcal i built off of(varget{43-44gr}, andIMR 4895{42-43gr}) .as for the houge stock and free flooting problems all i did was take a few slice on aluminum foil and placed them behind the recoil lug(taped to stock with black tape).the strip was as wide as the lug to front action screw.i did use 2 strips to get a good clearance with the black tape i was looking for.
 
3031 is the old standby for 168's out of a .308. In fact 39.0 gr of 3031 is a standard ISU load for shooting 300m. Nothing wrong with 3031 other than I find it to be a very dirty powder compared to Varget. 3031 can also be temp sensitive so a load the works well at -3C might run into sticky bolt lift or hard to extract when the temps get up around 30C.

For an aiming mark on your homemade targets try a small square about 1"x1" instead of a circle. Set your crosshairs on the corner of the square. If you use a 4"X4" square you can shoot all 4 corners and see 4 groups one one page.
 
I use 3031 in my ruger compact 16.5" barrel, with 150gr bullets. It shoots 3/4" groups. I surely believe that the tactical would be able to do the same and better with 3031.

But I also handload for a friend who shoots a 1200Tx Parker hale. 165 gr bullet and varget. He has a target hanging on his wall that is 5 shots, 1 hole at 200 yards.

So experiment and see what works best.
 
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