Need advice on what bullet is for me.

McCoolium

McCoolium

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Hey guys,

I'm going to be buying a rifle soon and I am trying figure out what callibre I need. I do a lot of target shooting, mostly with .308, 22-250 or 7.62x39. I have a lot of fun with those rounds and I shoot consistantly at about 600m with both the 22-250 and the .308 but I want to push the range out to about 1km and I don't think either of those rounds are up to the challenge.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a round that can hit out to 1km? I usually only do target shooting but I will probably use the gun for hunting deer too. I don't want to go overboard (.338 lapua is wayyyyyy too big). I was looking at .30-06, 270 win or .25-06.

I am looking for something common enough that I will have a decent slection for rifles and ammo (grain weights) and something that is cheap. But above all it has to have enough energy to get itself to 1km and be able to deliver a kill shot to a deer up to 300m

Any thoughts?
 
"...1km..." That's not as far as you think. Still a very long way. However, DCRA 1,000 meter/yard matches are normal with the .308 using 155(Palma), 168 and 175 grain match grade bullets. Usually with heavy barreled, single shot(not always single shots though), target rifles.
The Palma Matches require 155's, but the rifles are very specialized target rifles. Fourteen or 15 pound, heavy barreled, single shot, .308's. Other target rifles are too heavy to lug around hunting(not a big deal when hunting from a blind. Horrible for still hunting.), but the 168's are used out to 600 meters/yards. The 175's past there. Most 1,000 meter/yard target rifles are heavy barreled, .300 Win Mags, using 190 grain match bullets. Wouldn't even consider a .22-250 or a 7.62 x 39 out to 600, never mind 1,000. 7.62 x 39 rifles aren't accurate enough and .22 calibre bullets will get blown all over. Mind you, there are 1,000 yard .223 target rifles. Still with heavy barrels.
Forget cheap. Match grade bullets aren't cheap. Hornady 168 grain HPBT match bullets ran over $300Cdn per 1,000, the last time I looked. Forget using the same bullet for deer hunting and target shooting too. Match bullets aren't made for hunting. Hunting bullets aren't made for extreme distances. Not that they won't go 1,000m. Very few cartridges have enough energy left much past 300 or 400 for a clean kill either.
After all that, any .308 hunting rifle, like the one you have, will do with a change of bullet. It will be better for hunting than target shooting. You'll have to work up the load too.
 
Your .308 fits the requirements you have identified: it will easily kill a deer at 300 yards and can punch paper a lot farther, however you will probably need a 20MOA scope base (or more) to get enough scope adjustment for 1000 yards.
 
F Class is shot from 300 to 1000 yards. I have used my rifles back to 1200 yards (over 1 km). No shooter I know has to change bases to do this.

My procedure is to choose a base that allows me to shoot a couple inches low at 100 yards withthe scope adjusted at the bottom of travel. That way the full elevation of the scope is available to me - usually 60 to 80 minutes. 1000 yards only needs 25 to 30 minutes. The rise from 1000 to 1100 and from 1100 to 1200 is about another 10 minutes each.

remember that most of us use 30mm scopes - not 1 inch. We have a lot more adjustment in these scopes.

On one of my F Class rifle I had to turn the scope on its side, so the wind knob became elevation. It will still shoot 1000 yards with only a 10 minute base.
 
do you have any suggestions for specific rifles and optic set-ups that would be able to make the .308 work out to 1km? Does anyone have anything to say about any other round besides the .308? or is that pretty much the only way to go?


Edit:
Also I was wondering if anyone knew a few websites that I can get onto to read up on shooting out to 1km. Regarding things like, optics, rifles etc.

Thanks a lot guys.
 
McCoolium said:
do you have any suggestions for specific rifles and optic set-ups that would be able to make the .308 work out to 1km? Does anyone have anything to say about any other round besides the .308? or is that pretty much the only way to go?


Edit:
Also I was wondering if anyone knew a few websites that I can get onto to read up on shooting out to 1km. Regarding things like, optics, rifles etc.

Thanks a lot guys.
Click to expand...

There are a great many sites that will have info. If you want to look into a different caliber in a new rifle the 6.5- 284 seems to be the new darling for longer range shooting. Savage chambers this round in a 30 inch factory barreled rifle.
Sites you will find info on,
6mmBR.com
Accurate reloading .com
Longrange hunting .com
Snipershide
 
These are my personal pick's for the 308 Long Range Rounds

For Bolt action's
352898.jpg

Barnes Maximum Range 180 Grain MRX

For Semi's
347244.jpg

Sierra MatchKing 168 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tail

For Hunting
874243.jpg

Berger Target 210 Grain VLD Hollow Point Boat
 
McCoolium said:
do you have any suggestions for specific rifles and optic set-ups that would be able to make the .308 work out to 1km? Does anyone have anything to say about any other round besides the .308? or is that pretty much the only way to go?


Edit:
Also I was wondering if anyone knew a few websites that I can get onto to read up on shooting out to 1km. Regarding things like, optics, rifles etc.

Thanks a lot guys.
Click to expand...

Inside of 600m, you can just about make anything work, for hunting or target shooting. Going out to 1000yds means another level of detail, largely ammunition related. Savage factory rifles are doing well in F-Class with minimal mods. Remington is also popular, but generally they need some work.

Check out the 6mmbr.com site for some information (overload).
 
Alright so I've been looking more in depth to the .308 and it looks like that might be where I end up. Now what's the next step? I am new to precision shooting and every gun I have ever bought or fired has been an off-the-shelf no add-ons firearm. I don't exactly know how to choose a rifle set-up.

So for now lets go with the .308, what do I now need to be mindful of in regards to an actual rifle, what does it need to have to make shooting at 1000m a consistent reality? what kind of modifications are usually done to rifles for shooting at this distance?
 
sunray said:
However, DCRA 1,000 meter/yard matches are normal with the .308 using 155(Palma), 168 and 175 grain match grade bullets. Usually with heavy barreled, single shot(not always single shots though), target rifles.

Most 1,000 meter/yard target rifles are heavy barreled, .300 Win Mags, using 190 grain match bullets. Wouldn't even consider a .22-250 or a 7.62 x 39 out to 600, never mind 1,000. 7.62 x 39 rifles aren't accurate enough and .22 calibre bullets will get blown all over. Mind you, there are 1,000 yard .223 target rifles. Still with heavy barrels.
Click to expand...

DCRA matches are shot out to 900m not 1000m. For TR class 156 gr bullets are the max at all distances.

Same rifle/bullet for all ranges, no one switches to a .300 WM or any other caliber to shoot long range here in Canada. A fast twist .223 with 80 gr bullets give up very little to nothing against the .308 shooting 155's out to 1000 yards.

If you were to rebarrel a .22-250 to a fast twist and shot 80 gr bullets you would be at an advantage over the .223 at long range, however barrel life would suffer.

To the OP, take a look at the offerings from Savage mainly the Savage F/TR or Savage Palma rifles. They are good entry level target rifles that will be sure to get you started in your quest for long range shooting.
 
What would need to be done to the Savage F/TR, in terms of modifications, that would make it more suitable for 1000m?


Edit: The Savage F/TR is beautiful but does anyone know of a rifle that is good for long range target shooting that can hold more than one round?
 
McCoolium said:
What would need to be done to the Savage F/TR, in terms of modifications, that would make it more suitable for 1000m?


Edit: The Savage F/TR is beautiful but does anyone know of a rifle that is good for long range target shooting that can hold more than one round?
Click to expand...

You would need to put some kind or sighting system on it:p Other than that it should shoot 1000 yards right out of the box without mods.

Most competitions are shot using the single shot/single load method. Even long range string shooting in the US is loaded one round at a time.
 
I understand that most people use single shot rifles but I would really like something with a magazine (detachable or fixed). Are there any options that fit what I want?
 
6.5 x 55 would give acceptable results as well, or as far as that goes 260 rem, or 6.5 x 47 Lapua. The 6.5 caliber bullets have a high BC. .308 will work and is an old stand by but there are better calibers for long range that will easily do the job hunting to 300 yrds.

Savage F Class 6.4 284
Tikka Super Varmint 6.5 55 mag fed heavy barreled.

Leupold makes 20 MOA bases for resonable price...
 
If you use a magazine, you lose most of the action bedding area.

1000 yards is a standard target rifle distance with a 308. We shoot iron sights, off our elbows (no rest). It really isn't all that far.

Your best rifle would be a used target rifle in 308. It would have a premium action (stiff, properly bedded and true) with a premium trigger and a heavy duty stock.

I could sell you a Remington 40X or a Musgrave. Both have 30" barrels. At $1,500 they are bargains, but you have probably nver heard of either one.

BTW, the Sierra 168 is a short range bullet, designed for 300 meters. It is wind senstitive at longer range.

Good long range bullets are the 155 match bullets desgined for the Palma match, as made by Sierra, Berger, Lapua and Hornady. We shoot them at 2950 to 3000 fps out of 30" barrels. With a 32' brl I get 3100 fps.
 
so why not go .30-06 if it have the same bullet diameter but a longer casing. shouldn't that mean that it can do whatever the .308 can and maybe go a little further?
 
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