No problem...I hear you and this is exactly my impression as well, but not enough people whose opinion I trust own this rifle for me to commit 100% one way or the other. Consequently, I'm always on the lookout for detailed information, good or bad. There is a good thread going on the XCR on M4C (for once) with a lot of good info but I'm always after more.
Robinson Arms sues Remington, Bushmaster, RRA
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No problem...I hear you and this is exactly my impression as well, but not enough people whose opinion I trust own this rifle for me to commit 100% one way or the other. Consequently, I'm always on the lookout for detailed information, good or bad. There is a good thread going on the XCR on M4C (for once) with a lot of good info but I'm always after more.
Definitely seems like generation 1 was pretty bad...although I am STARTING to see some more favourable discussion recently.
Unfortunately the thing you see most is "I've never had a single problem with mine and I have at least 800 rounds through it. It's the most accurate rifle I own."
Terrific...I will be more interested when you have more than a single day's worth of shooting through it though...
Unfortunately the thing you see most is "I've never had a single problem with mine and I have at least 800 rounds through it. It's the most accurate rifle I own."
Terrific...I will be more interested when you have more than a single day's worth of shooting through it though...
shatthatkilledelvis
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Even if the G36 possessed these qualities wouldn't change a thing. The fact of the matter is that RobArms OWNS the patent to this feature and thats what makes a the difference. It is the individual or company that holds the patent that has the right to exercise the the protection of the idea/design that the pantent represents.
Just because you may have been the first to invent something doesn't mean you'll make money from the design. If someone steals your idea and patents it first, more often then not, you're hooped. You have to spend alot of time and money to prove your design was taken and infringed upon - and unless you can show with documented or unequivocal proof that it was a stolen, then you don't have a leg to stand on.
So...if HK doesn't have a patent on their "ambidextrous arrangement" or if an existing patent has expired and Robarms modified their "arrangement" and patented the idea again, then Robarms is free to pursue legal action if they feel someone is infringeing on their idea.
For the record i own a Remington - not because i like the company but because it shoots well. If Robarms is in the right i hope they win.
misanthropist, like what do you want?
I have an XCR in 7.62x39 on order, that I am supposed to get in a day or two. Brand new. Canada Post claims it's waiting at the post office for me.
If I take it to the range, follow robarms instructions for break-in regarding gas settings, lubrication, etc, and shoot a full case (1200 rounds) of czech milsurp ammo out of it in one range session, and count how many stoppages I have, and post a range report, will it make a difference to you? Keep in mind that I am "unknown", so this will be a yet another opinion of a guy from the interwebs.
Right now I was thinking about using it at the EOHC milsurp shoot next weekend in the open category (I have a perfectly good SKS to use in the milsurp category), but if it will honestly make you change your mind, let me know and I'll see what I can do with regards to range time.
Honestly, I think that in order to have an educated opinion, you have to get the firearm in question into your own hands, and fire a few thousand rounds out of it on your own. Right now you're complaining that the gun is unknown and noone you recognize uses it. Well, heck, get an XCR yourself, preferably a new import (so it has all the latest upgrades) shoot it for a month or two, and if you don't like it, past experience shows that you can sell it for $2K on EE in a day. You'll loose 500$ (cost difference, taxes, shipping, ext) if you don't like it, but you will know.
<subliminal message>Go buy an XCR!
</subliminal message>
Sure, that would definitely be interesting. I'd like to know if all the bolts are staying tight - in particular that one barrel bolt creeps me out a bit.
I'm also curious to know exactly what materials are used in the XCR - not that you'll find out by running a case through it, but if your gun comes with the information, let me know...what grade of aluminum is that? What grade of steel?
How does the ejector seem after a case of ammo? I am not clear on how it's attached to the bolt...is it a solid setup?
If you run through a whole case in an afternoon, are you heating anything up enough that loctite won't hold anymore? It seems like some of those bolts should be safety-wired to me and I know they're talking loctite on this gun a lot...
Are they still using clips to retain pins or what? Or have they gone to some kind of captive pin setups or what is the deal with that?
I am not a fan of little clips to keep critical pins in place so I'm wondering if they've started to move away from that and how the clips themselves hold up under extended use...not that 1200 rounds is really enough to find out I guess...but if they're getting away from clips (which somebody recently told me) that would be good.
I would love to see a case put through an XCR in an afternoon. If you can supply the rifle, I will supply the ammo and the sore trigger finger, and load thumb. I'd want to know more about parts coming loose on the new batch then about the stoppages though.
There have never been any problems with them being loose. RA just advises one to check in order to ensure they are properly fastened before use because the potential for harm if one doesn't is high, even if the likelihood of a problem is very low. The barrel nut is quite long. It doesn't have to be super tight, but it should be, just to be sure.
The upper is made from anodized, forged, non-stressed aluminum. Many of the other parts are CNC.
Its solid. I've put thousands through mine with no issues of the extractor. The Extractor is also bigger, meaning it won't be as prone to problems.
There are no problems. The bolts are all machined, the loctite is redundant, plus, only the barrel gets hot.
The only retaining pin is for the upper/lower pin. This is preferable, because it can be easily replaced with a paper clip or hairpin in a pinch. A more complex removal system could be used, but then you'd need tools. This is a simple, robust way of dealing with the requirement.
The retaining pins are not a problem. They're not under stress at all. The pin is simply used to retain the actual pin. I've put several thousand rounds through, no wear on the pin AT ALL, and no problems with it 'falling out'.
You do not need to remove the pin to properly clean it. It you want to clean the magwell, and really give the XCR a really thorough clean, you wouldn't do it in the field, so there is no risk of losing the pin.
I thought that if it was shown some one else developed a product before some one else, the patent could be dismissed?
This is not true in my experience. Parts that were not locktited came loose. Some came loose after locktiting, and needed other solutions. This is first hand experiences with the rifles I have owned, and those I have seen shot by friends.
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1) Well, as I assume you know, there have been instances of their bolts backing off, which explains why they now advise a different torque spec than they used to, and why they reccomend loctite. I can think of one example where a guy found his barrel nut had backed off during shooting, for example.
2) So what grade aluminum is that, then? 4000 series? 7000 series? Or do you not know?
3) if the only pin left is for the upper/lower, what are they now doing with the trigger and hammer pivots? They were originally on pins which were held in place by clips IIRC...what did they change to? And by what method is the upper/lower pin held in now if not a clip? Could you post a picture?
It's terrific that you're assuring everyone that there is no problem...however since there very obviously WERE problems with the early ones I assume you understand the level of skepticism about this rifle.
angryeyebrows
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The point is, you shouldn't have to recheck all the time. This one, single, solitary bolt is a critical component. IF it ever loosens or gets lost, the entire rifle is pooched. Now I know there are other components on other rifles that the same holds true for but none are dangling off of the bottom of the rifle with no method of captivation or retaining.
How is it preferable to use a small, external clip to retain a critical pin then to simply have the pin captive like the AR or Swiss Arms?? I don't know about you but I don't stuff my pockets full of hairpins and paper clips when I go out for a shoot.
Anyway, I don't know why I get sucked into commenting on this rifle or why it bothers me that you will unfailingly defend it's design flaws. Bottom line is that it's got some serious issues and some interesting concerns have been voiced. For a rifle designed for combat, it sure does have a lot of small bits to loose.
That is exactly it...if they would address a few more of its issues, it could really be a serious competitor.
As it is, I think the SCAR is going to walk all over it...even though I am sure the SCAR also has its issues, the XCR is fighting an uphill battle by being a new platform built by a small company overcoming a bad reputation.
If all it needs are a few more tweaks to make it a great gun, then there is no point to french-kissing its warts...you are only doing the company a disservice.
As it is, I think the SCAR is going to walk all over it...even though I am sure the SCAR also has its issues, the XCR is fighting an uphill battle by being a new platform built by a small company overcoming a bad reputation.
If all it needs are a few more tweaks to make it a great gun, then there is no point to french-kissing its warts...you are only doing the company a disservice.
angryeyebrows
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I feel I always come off a bit harsh with regards to Robinson Armaments. They do have a great customer service rep and it's true they are a small company. I do give them kudos for standing up with the big boys (FN,Colt etc) and offering a completely new design, but they need to keep on it. Make some revisions and improve upon what they have. They would have a great product if all the small details were addressed.
Very true, that is exactly how I feel about them.
This confusion is because US law is different from other jurisdictions. In most jurisdictions it is first to patent. In the US it is first to invent.
The fact is though, that the design is sufficiently different (its ambidextrous, its ergonomically superior), and that's what makes it patentable. There is no prior invention of this device, and the fact it was granted a patent pretty much seals it.
shatthatkilledelvis
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