Very lucky it was not worse. SOCOM II
- Thread starter Wookie316
- Start date
Wow, someone is very lucky to not be injured in that catastrophy
The bolt is shattered!!
Note the right lug sheared right off.
So is it a case of another crappy springfield bolt failing? I'd be interested in having you post the bolt's markings/numbers.
So it could be out of battery detonation but to blow the lugs apart... They must have been partially engaged.
Coulda been caused several things as mentioned by others but no sense speculating.
At least springfield has a warranty service that should replace the entire rig.
If it was an ammo issue, replace bolt and stock and away you go
Myself I would send it to SAI and demand and entirely new rifle as there may be receiver damage inside at the safety bridge
Glad your friend is o.k.
The bolt is shattered!!
Note the right lug sheared right off.
So is it a case of another crappy springfield bolt failing? I'd be interested in having you post the bolt's markings/numbers.
So it could be out of battery detonation but to blow the lugs apart... They must have been partially engaged.
Coulda been caused several things as mentioned by others but no sense speculating.
At least springfield has a warranty service that should replace the entire rig.
If it was an ammo issue, replace bolt and stock and away you go
Myself I would send it to SAI and demand and entirely new rifle as there may be receiver damage inside at the safety bridge
Glad your friend is o.k.
Wow, I bet it was that eotech that distorted the reciever.
I'll give your friend 20$ to get that cursed thing off his hands, if it still works that is.
Good thing he escaped serious injury, I would imagine it would take quite a bit of energy to force the trigger group out like that.
I'll give your friend 20$ to get that cursed thing off his hands, if it still works that is.
Good thing he escaped serious injury, I would imagine it would take quite a bit of energy to force the trigger group out like that.
It's a bolt lug. Could be bad metal, could be a seriously-over-pressured round. Best to hold off until the OP returns the rifle/ammo to the manufacturer for inspection.
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under your bed
this rifle is known for metal fatiuge. call springfield and let them know. this isint the frist time this has happened. the last one ive seen the barrel let go. took months to figure it out. let springfield know. they know its a problem. your friend paid alot of cash for this rifle, they MIGHT go good to replace the rifle. google m 14/m1 rifle failures you'll see what i mean.
Agree.
The only issue is waiting for SAI to get you a rifle. Last I heard the waiting list to get M1As from SAI to Canadian hands was close to a year or more depending on rifle etc. IIRC Nichols is the importer now so add that to your woes.
The only issue is waiting for SAI to get you a rifle. Last I heard the waiting list to get M1As from SAI to Canadian hands was close to a year or more depending on rifle etc. IIRC Nichols is the importer now so add that to your woes.
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under your bed
these rifles are over priced junk, there ive said it junk. there has been more than one that has failed due to metal fatuige and springfield still sells them at an over rated price. do your home work an you will find a 3- 4 % failure rate with these rifles. most rifles made today have a less than .5% failure rate of the metal. springfield has to stop out sourcing thier parts and do everything in house. id buy a norinco before a springfield.
What's actually funny about your is that it makes no sense at all .
Failures happen even with the Norinco it is to early to tell if the ammunition was to blame I would have liked to see what was left of the fired cases for having a cast reciever it looks like it stood up quite well . The great thing about Springfield Armory is there warrant is one of the best out there they do stand behind there product
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under your bed
well my friend we have 3 in our lock up that we cannot shot, i work for the infantry school of the cf. they fail much too often and has been proven so. do your homework. we have 2 with destroyed barrels that failed due to metal fatuige. i do this for a living ( shooting) get off your sofa and shoot, but not a springfield. they fail alot for a 2000 dollar plus rifle.
So how many rounds pounded thru them lots I can imagine ? I can probably say that that given my expericence in the CF the Norincos would have the same failure rate ?. Hell anything can be abused and broken and in the CF it does happen with all the weapons platforms From the BHP to M2 50 cal I have seen them all come apart mostly from improper maintenace or operator error
VERRRRrrrry Interesting.
Diagnosing from the pictures posted,
without more pertinent information,
will have to be mostly speculation,
however,
to me,
it looks like that bolt WAS in battery when the failure occurred.
1.] Pics 1,2, & 3 show us that The extractor is still there. Since the extractor is only supported by the barrel hood for the last 1/8" or so of bolt forward travel, if the ruptured case exploded before the bolt was almost completely closed, then the extractor would be some where else, not still in the bolt.
2.] in pic 3 we can see that the bolt lugs are fully engaged. The crack shown from the extractor hole to the left lug shows that the bolt lugs were engaged, and did the job of holding the bolt in place in the receiver, at the moment the traumatic experience occurred. Again this is an indication that the bolt WAS in battery when the explosion occurred. If the bolt was NOT in battery, then the lugs would not have been engaged, and they would have stayed intact, with the ENTIRE bolt flying backwards.
3.] The bottom view in pic3 shows us exposed ejector spring, and a clear view of the left lug and that small angled surface. Look in the bottom of your M14 type rifle .... there is supposed to be a chunk of steel on the receiver side wall that masks the left lug from view. That chunk of steel is gone ... peeled off the side of the receiver. The exposed extractor spring indicates that high pressure gases from a case head rupture or pierced primer forced their way into the ejector spring hole, and peeled the bottom of the bolt off.
So, without further inspection of the fired case, and the stripped bolt, and more information from the shooter,
I am going to suggest that this explosion occurred WITH the bolt fully forward.
Most likely culprits:
1.] MASSIVE overpressure
due to bore obstruction, bullet setback, poor reloading, etc.
2.] Case head separation
due to case stretch and poor reloading, and/or above
3.] Pierced primer due to firing pin tip broken into a sharp point, or too much extrusion, or brass shavings in the firing pin hole [ NOTE this is not quite at likely as the path of the gases and the ruptured stock suggest the ruptured gas came out the side, not the primer hole ....
UNLESS ,
the second round in the mag ALSO EXPLODED???]
4.] Bolt that was too hard and brittle
5.] While we are speculating on insufficient data ....
what happened to the rest of the loaded magazine???
Did the next round in the mag also detonate??
I don't know about you guys,
but I'm going to take my Norc M14 rifle to the range today
and SHOOT IT WITH JUST AS MUCH CONFIDENCE AS EVER.
We can blow up ANY gun if we try hard enough,
ANY GUN!!!
and we can be hit by lightning while playing golf too.
I'd say the odds of either happening to me today are less than me winning the lottery [ especially the golf, because while I do buy lottery tickets, I think a golf course is a waste of good real estate that could have been a range ].
Which reminds me ....
I better check my lottery ticket,
AND,
inspect the firing pin hole of my M14 bolt for brass shavings BEFORE I pull the trigger,
AND
check my tires before I jump on my FJR 1300 and tear off at 100 MPH
AND
....
you get the idea.
[;{)
LAZ 1
Diagnosing from the pictures posted,
without more pertinent information,
will have to be mostly speculation,
however,
to me,
it looks like that bolt WAS in battery when the failure occurred.
1.] Pics 1,2, & 3 show us that The extractor is still there. Since the extractor is only supported by the barrel hood for the last 1/8" or so of bolt forward travel, if the ruptured case exploded before the bolt was almost completely closed, then the extractor would be some where else, not still in the bolt.
2.] in pic 3 we can see that the bolt lugs are fully engaged. The crack shown from the extractor hole to the left lug shows that the bolt lugs were engaged, and did the job of holding the bolt in place in the receiver, at the moment the traumatic experience occurred. Again this is an indication that the bolt WAS in battery when the explosion occurred. If the bolt was NOT in battery, then the lugs would not have been engaged, and they would have stayed intact, with the ENTIRE bolt flying backwards.
3.] The bottom view in pic3 shows us exposed ejector spring, and a clear view of the left lug and that small angled surface. Look in the bottom of your M14 type rifle .... there is supposed to be a chunk of steel on the receiver side wall that masks the left lug from view. That chunk of steel is gone ... peeled off the side of the receiver. The exposed extractor spring indicates that high pressure gases from a case head rupture or pierced primer forced their way into the ejector spring hole, and peeled the bottom of the bolt off.
So, without further inspection of the fired case, and the stripped bolt, and more information from the shooter,
I am going to suggest that this explosion occurred WITH the bolt fully forward.
Most likely culprits:
1.] MASSIVE overpressure
due to bore obstruction, bullet setback, poor reloading, etc.
2.] Case head separation
due to case stretch and poor reloading, and/or above
3.] Pierced primer due to firing pin tip broken into a sharp point, or too much extrusion, or brass shavings in the firing pin hole [ NOTE this is not quite at likely as the path of the gases and the ruptured stock suggest the ruptured gas came out the side, not the primer hole ....
UNLESS ,
the second round in the mag ALSO EXPLODED???]
4.] Bolt that was too hard and brittle
5.] While we are speculating on insufficient data ....
what happened to the rest of the loaded magazine???
Did the next round in the mag also detonate??
I don't know about you guys,
but I'm going to take my Norc M14 rifle to the range today
and SHOOT IT WITH JUST AS MUCH CONFIDENCE AS EVER.
We can blow up ANY gun if we try hard enough,
ANY GUN!!!
and we can be hit by lightning while playing golf too.
I'd say the odds of either happening to me today are less than me winning the lottery [ especially the golf, because while I do buy lottery tickets, I think a golf course is a waste of good real estate that could have been a range ].
Which reminds me ....
I better check my lottery ticket,
AND,
inspect the firing pin hole of my M14 bolt for brass shavings BEFORE I pull the trigger,
AND
check my tires before I jump on my FJR 1300 and tear off at 100 MPH
AND
....
you get the idea.
[;{)
LAZ 1
Thanx LAZ !
Wisdom again !
Seems most blow ups are due to bad reloads-
Can happen to any gun-
WE had an AR at our range blow due to a bad reload - the aluminum receiver basically vaporized into shrapnel.
I'd rather have an M14 blow up than an AR - much safer.
Wisdom again !
Seems most blow ups are due to bad reloads-
Can happen to any gun-
WE had an AR at our range blow due to a bad reload - the aluminum receiver basically vaporized into shrapnel.
I'd rather have an M14 blow up than an AR - much safer.
I agree bad ammunition has lead to many catastrophic failures wether using factory or reloaded ammunition .
Although I prefer not to have a rifle fail I agree the M14 is probaly much safer than many others
I understand the mag split in 2 & flew out the bottom. It was a re-load, still trying to find out bullet gr & type & charge.
I too think it's a re-load issue.
How do loads in these rifles compare to loads in a bolt rifle, which can take more? I know nothing when it comes to an M14/AR platform.
Glad I wasn't the wheelman on this failure.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
yikes, one of my first thoughs was that there was one that detonated in the magazine.
Seems these M-1A platforms are of hard luck....that kind of mess is hard to reproduce in a bolt gun.
Seems these M-1A platforms are of hard luck....that kind of mess is hard to reproduce in a bolt gun.
