Reloading for .43 Mauser

Nabs

Nabs

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I have a Gewehr 71/84 in beautiful condition, begging to be taken to the range. I plan on doing that in the next couple of months but the issue is she was built along the principle of black powder and lead cast bullets.

I have some basic knowledge of black powder from what I have read in the Canadian firearms safety course book as well as on the internet but not much more than that. I know the action is not particularly strong and using smokeless powder wouldn't be the best idea. My search for loading data online has only yielded personal loads for one person. I think I should use FFx black powder but correct me if I am wrong. I also heard about a black powder substitute that is less corrosive, would this be an option ?

I also remember reading about having to put a cotton wad or something like that in between the black powder and the bullet but I have not been able to find an explanation on this, could someone shed more light ?

As for the bullets, I have seen and handled a few that were from commercial boxes from the 1950s and got a general idea what they look like. Buying a box of commercial from that period is very expensive but I would be willing to do it if I could get appropriate loading data from it. The bullets looked like lead cast with no cooper jacket, does any one know if a simple bullet mold is out there to cast .43 Mauser bullets or are they sold pre-made ?

I am guessing aside from some differences, you generally load the rounds the same as any other ?
 
When you mentioned that you thought that the 43 mauser was black powder only, I knew that I'd seen smokeless powder loads for it somewhere. You can use black powder, or smokeless powder in any cartridge, the trick is to use the RIGHT smokeless powder with the RIGHT charge to get a pressure that is low enough for that rifle; especially given it's age. I think that the real challenge is going to be to find a mould that is the right size/shape, and cases, especially cases. I looked in Pet Loads, and my Lyman manual for loads, and they are not there; but that is possibly only an indication of the relative obscurity of the round, and nothing else. If your really serious, you may want to either invest in Quickload, or find someone that already has it; one of my buddies swears by it.
Mike
 
If loading black, fill case up to the bottom of the bullet, don't use fillers, you should have no airspace inside your loaded round, check into info on this site and others in regards to BP compression and drop tubing BP.
 
Thanks for the information guys, if you have any really good sources for BP. Yes, I am very serious about firing this 71/84, if you saw her in her current condition, you would work hard to get her to the range.

I am guessing I may want to ask in the BP forum on here as well as asking here. If you have any tips, please pass them on.
 
The .43 Mauser is a hell of a lot of fun. I expected more smoke as it was my first BP I'd ever shot. Still really fun though. Reloading for it isn't hard. The internet is full of recipes. Finding components was a bit of an expensive pain though.
 
I am willing to do it. My great great grandfather, perhaps even my great grandfather may have used this rifle so it is very special to me to get her out to the range. Even more so, the regiment that she was assigned to was located ~30km from the birthplace of my great grandfather in Posen.

When I did a search a few months ago, this website (Link) was one that caught my interest as the author has listed two loads, one with BP and the other with smokeless. The disassembly guide there was a great help to me as there is none listed elsewhere on the internet. My experience with my other Mausers and my Gewehr 88/05 was a great assistance in taking my 71/84 apart and cleaning every part. From my analysis, I was probably the first person to take her apart in well over a century. The bore needed a good cleaning as the first few patches came out black but now they come out clean and the bore is just beautiful with some minor pitting. Aside from the worn bluing, every part matches and the stock is in pristine condition with just two light scratches. The original finish is still on the walnut stock as well. I think you all catch my drift as to my longing to get her out to the range :D.

I do not feel comfortable firing smokeless in my 71/84 and would gladly deal with black powder. I will just have to pay more attention to cleaning and maintenance I would imagine.
 
Some people make Black Powder out to be a horrible thing. If you are cleaning and maintaining your guns properly it isn't an issue. You are going to be cleaning often though, between the Lead bullets and BP.
 
I can deal with that, I know the majority of my 71/84 and her parts. I haven't taken the elevator and action switch apart as it appears they have not been taken apart since the rifle was first made but I did a thorough cleaning in and around the areas. So far, every part operates just like it should and the elevator, which was stuck in the beginning, goes up and down without incident. I am anxious for the moment I put some rounds in the tubular magazine and cycle them through the action, just like it would have been done a century earlier.

I don't know if anyone else ran into this issue but I fell victim to it twice. It is when you remove the bolt but push the elevator down to accept rounds from the tubular magazine. You are unable to put the bolt back in order to pull the elevator back up so the only recourse is to take the rifle apart and manually push the elevator up with your finger once you remove the action from the stock. It was this very incident that pushed me to disassemble my 71/84 and enabled me to inspect every part. Aside from some dirt, black powder crude ?, and a bit of tarnish, the internals are magnificent for their age, not a single pit is present on the metal, exposed or hidden beneath the stock line. Only a hair line crack, on the stock portion that sits between the tubular magazine and the barrel, is present for a few inches from the end of the tubular magazine in the action area to just a few inches forward. I do not see this being a problem as the wood running along this area is paper thin and considering the rifle has no recoil lug, all the force of the bolt moving forward seems to be transmitted through the stock. This is also another area that worries me as repeated firings may split the crack open further. I am seeking to load just above minimum. I am not going to be target shooting with this rifle or have any desire to test her metallurgy. I only wish to hit a target say 100-200m away and be happy knowing that she lives once again.

Any thoughts on the "Black powder substitute" ? I can ask my friend what the name for it is if that helps.
 
Thank you, I did a quick google search for Pyrodex and found it. Seems traditional black powder is disappearing and being replaced with this. Does it still react similar to regular black powder in that if you drop a spark on it, it goes bang ?

The wiki article I found talks about its use in muzzleloaders but I am assuming a FF grade can of this would work just fine in a .43 Mauser case ?

My friend also warned about the potential of pressure increases with black powder substitutes and I am inclined to take his warning to heart considering the age of my 71/84.

Edit: "Triple Seven" is the one my friend quoted me.
 
Real black powder isn't going to disappear in our lives. I can't see any reason to use any of the substitutes either.

Find all your bits and just fill the case up. FFFg might be a little fast but FFg or Fg will work great. Use soft cast bullets. Ben can probably fix you up. Brass could be a bit of a pain.

Some loading info: http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/html/SubFrameSet.htm <look at Chucks guide in particular.

http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/Cartridge-Rifle.pdf <not much info and they call it a 433 for some reason.
 
Good resources, thank you. I will have to ask my contact at the gun show I normally go to to see if he has the casting tool for the lead cast bullets I would require.

If I understand correctly, I would fill the case all the way up to right where the end of the lead cast bullet would be when properly seated ? If so, this sounds like a heavy BP load and makes me kind of nervous to use it in my 71/84.
 
Don't worry about that load, it's not heavy, pressure level would be very low and will result in the velocity that you need to make the whole thing work good including regulating the sights. In fact, some people go through the trouble of using top quality "Swiss Brand" Black Powder to match velocities of original factory BP ammo.
I would suggest that you "slug the bore" first to determine best bullet size, whether use Black or smokeless(I must sound like a stuck record)......Ben
 
I have a 43 mauser and loads for smokless powder and yes you need to stuff with cotton on the smokeless Powder .You can buy Bullets at the Bullet barn BC Google them .I will get you more info .

I shot mine a little the Brass is weak not sure how old the brass I have is or how many times loaded I would where safety Glass shooting these bullets
I have been looking for more Brass to load as I only have 14 shells
 
You'd have to pack a s**tload of BP to put stress on your gun!! Think of your bullet as a wave. It's hard to surf when the wave only gets 5 ft high eh? With smokless and a packed case you'd be on the Moon!
 
Yes, certainly alot more then the case can hold, the cartridge shoots best with properly fitted, soft cast bullets, as do most of the old timers.
 
The Load I use is 340 grain lubed lead size is .446
H 4198 / 33 grains then stuff with pillow stuffing and put in lead I don't crimp 1,338 fps 2 inch groups at 100

Bullets from the Bullet barn Garden bay British Columbia

box of 100 340 grain lubed .446 $30.53 that was with taxes and shipping shipping was 8 dollars

Hope this helps you out it is a lot of fun to shot you can here the slug hit the plywood at 100 yards
 
Nabs said:
I have a Gewehr 71/84 in beautiful condition, begging to be taken to the range. I plan on doing that in the next couple of months but the issue is she was built along the principle of black powder and lead cast bullets.

I have some basic knowledge of black powder from what I have read in the Canadian firearms safety course book as well as on the internet but not much more than that. I know the action is not particularly strong and using smokeless powder wouldn't be the best idea.
Click to expand...

You've fallen for the kind of faulty logic and misinformation as often fed to us by some of the black powder crowd. "Once black powder always black powder!" "No smokeless in an antique!" "It's dangerous!" You get the picture. Loading the 43 Mauser with smokeless is perfectly safe, and has been covered dozens of times in this forum alone. If you do a search for "43 Mauser" you'll have lots to read.
 
I've shot smokeless and black in my 71/84. Smokeless is a waste of time, and really not much fun. The biggest issue with smokeless, unless you want to crimp your bullets tightly you're pretty much limited to single shot shooting. Without the BP behind the bullet to hold it up, the recoil and spring pressure pushes the bullets into the case. Smokeless might be just fine, if you only benchrest your rifle and shoot single shot. For serious fun, use black. RCBS makes a mould especially for the .43 Mauser, as did Rapine. I shoot the rapine bullets as cast, lubricated with 50/50 beeswax and Crisco. Use a reasonably soft alloy, and always weigh your cast bullets and separate them into batches for best accuracy. I use a standard Federal LR primer, and 78gr. Goex CTG. or FFG. The CTG. does burn slightly cleaner, but I don't think it really makes much difference. In the .43 Mauser, using a drop tube really helps. I use a three foot tube, and pour the powder through it slowly, about 4 seconds per charge. I sized a .45-70 case in the .43 die, and sharpened it from the inside. I use that to cut wads from a milk carton, but I believe you can buy pre-cut wads in the real world! :) (we don't take kindly to store bought stuff out here, y'know) Seat one wad on top of the powder, and compress the powder charge. I turned down a hard cast .43 bullet with an electric drill and a file, and use the bullet and seating die to compress the powder. I usually compress the charge to the base of the neck. I melt some of my 50/50 lube, and pour it into a perfectly level greased cookie sheet. Cut the sheet into conveniently sized squares, and punch lube wads out of the wax sheet using the charged case. Then seat one more card wad, then the bullet. It will take some trial and error to get the right thickness of lube wad to end up at the correct overall length, but once you have everything figured out, it's a breeze. The rounds go off with a really nice (CRACK) with relatively little smoke, are very accurate, and the combination of the lube and card wads keep the bore clean. Clean up is a snap, even after firing 20 rounds without cleaning, the rifle will still hit my 600m. target. I know the above sounds complicated, but it takes much longer to describe than it does to do it! :)
 
Great write-up Bushman. Very detailed, complete and well explained.

Do you find a lot of improvement when using the lube cookies as compared to just the lubed bullet? Probably be helpful for long strings on hot days.
 
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