5.56 75g, 77g

[dizzy]

Where is the heavy 75 or 77grain 5.56?

E.g. TAP, Blackhills

Any leads? I bought up what 5.56 TAP P&D had, but am hungry for more....

Have you looked at trying the 62 gr korean stuff TSE is bringing in. 1/2 the price and the bullet is as long as the 75gr hornady. Its 556 ammo and due to the bullet length 'may' perform as well in the short fast twist barrel. I have some just haven't manned up to head out in the cold to try it yet. have to say, the hornady match 223 75 gr sure performs well in an 8" barrel 1/7 twist. very well in fact.

 

[ESQ]

I have a metric buttload of that, too. Frag is unreliable in a short carbine barrell with the M855.

I want the heavy stuff for my special stash ;D

 

[scottm]

I want the heavy stuff for my special stash ;D

You mean this stuff? http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4250/imgp0755.jpg

The pictured ammo can has two 200 round sealed cases and three 20 round boxes of Hornady 5.56 NATO TAP ( http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail.php?id=72&sID=75&pID=1 ). I also sealed in one of those sardine can type desiccant boxes (freshly reactivated in the oven). You can also see 100 of the same that isn't packed away for the apocalypse

This is 2007 production which has the Hornady 5.56 NATO stamped brass. If you read the 40 or so page Molon post, it seems the latest lots use Lake City brass.

Not really for sale, but I suppose most material possessions have a price. Hell, I sold my Benelli M4 a while ago.

 

[kenjuudo]

That's the sh*t alright... and now for the real question, where did you get it...!?

You mean this stuff? http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4250/imgp0755.jpg

The pictured ammo can has two 200 round sealed cases and three 20 round boxes of Hornady 5.56 NATO TAP ( http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail.php?id=72&sID=75&pID=1 ). I also sealed in one of those sardine can type desiccant boxes (freshly reactivated in the oven). You can also see 100 of the same that isn't packed away for the apocalypse

This is 2007 production which has the Hornady 5.56 NATO stamped brass. If you read the 40 or so page Molon post, it seems the latest lots use Lake City brass.

Not really for sale, but I suppose most material possessions have a price. Hell, I sold my Benelli M4 a while ago.

 

[kenjuudo]

I have a metric buttload of that, too. Frag is unreliable in a short carbine barrell with the M855.

I want the heavy stuff for my special stash ;D

Once again, ESQ is correct... M855 / M193 don't provide the same reliable fragmentation as the heavier OTM loads. I have 1K of the PMC K100 M855 and 1K of IMI M855 and .5K Federal M193... both of the M855's are new production (2009) not surplus, but my "special stash" is longing for some of the 5.56 TAP as well...

 

[ESQ]

I have a small amount, but would like to find some more. A few shops had it, but apparently, Hornady has a policy of no longer selling the 5.56 to civvies. You can buy the neutered .223 load with the slightly inferior bullet and poorer ballistics, but not the 5.56.

 

[kenjuudo]

I have a small amount, but would like to find some more. A few shops had it, but apparently, Hornady has a policy of no longer selling the 5.56 to civvies. You can buy the neutered .223 load with the slightly inferior bullet and poorer ballistics, but not the 5.56.

It's available on the civilian market in the US right now... and I have some on backorder with a shop here in Canada... I guess we'll see if the backorder comes in or not... I just might have to have some shipped to my US address and bring it back up the next time I'm down there.

PS. Before some of you jump on me for suggesting that I bring some back from the States, I hold a US passport, which makes me a "US Person"... that, and 1,000 rounds or less for personal use and ITAR / DOS are not an issue.

 

[beltfed]

...Talked to the hornady rep last week and asked if it was possible to purchase 75 gr match bullets and he wouldn't even take the time to find out as he thought they'd be impossible to get and said to buy sierra WOW. Wanted to load them in some LC stamped brass from american eagle to 5.56 specs. Oh well, I have yet to see 5.56 hornady tap for sale anywhere.

The Hornady 75 gr. HPBT (#2279) bullet is what they use.
These and the 77gr SMK and Berger 77gr. BT all work very well.
24.5 gr. of Varget at 2.255" oal will net around 2850 fps with a 20" barrel.

 

[ESQ]

It's available on the civilian market in the US right now... and I have some on backorder with a shop here in Canada... I guess we'll see if the backorder comes in or not... I just might have to have some shipped to my US address and bring it back up the next time I'm down there.

PS. Before some of you jump on me for suggesting that I bring some back from the States, I hold a US passport, which makes me a "US Person"... that, and 1,000 rounds or less for personal use and ITAR / DOS are not an issue.

Haha, me too. But I didn't see that round on the NRCAN list? I guess it has to be there if the dealers have imported it!

 

[scottm]

The Hornady 75 gr. HPBT (#2279) bullet is what they use.
These and the 77gr SMK and Berger 77gr. BT all work very well.
24.5 gr. of Varget at 2.255" oal will net around 2850 fps with a 20" barrel.

The #2279 isn't the same bullet. The 556 Nato TAP comes with the T2 bullet which has a different profile (longer bearing surface and blunter ogive).
This *extensive post ( http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=283506&page=1 ) has a photo comparison:

The article refers to the bullet versions from left to right as T1, T1C (with cannelure), and T2. T1 is available for reloading (2279), apparently T1C can also be obtained.

eg http://patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm
224 75 HPBT Match 500-69.99, 1000-134.99, with/out canalure
224 75 HPBT Match with/Can 5000-69.99, 1000-134.99

T2 is unavailable as a reloading component. Hornady says "the T2 bullet profile is specifically designed to optimize function and feeding in M16/M4 variant guns".

Beltfed, that's definitely getting good speed from your Varget reload. A bit hotter than the Hornady NATO load (2821 versus your 2850) and equal to the hotter MK262 load shown in this chart from the same Molon post:

EDIT: Sorry Beltfed. You were quoting Dizzy re Hornady 75 gr match ammo. That is indeed the #2279 bullet. My mistake.

 

[kenjuudo]

Haha, me too. But I didn't see that round on the NRCAN list? I guess it has to be there if the dealers have imported it!

It's on the list... by part number in fact.

 

[ESQ]

I must have missed it when I was looking. I'll scrounge some up in the states then. Apparently, the US border patrol has stepped up checking outbound vehicles at BC border crossings. Must be ITAR driven. Anyway, I keep a copy of ITAR section 123.17 (e) with me whenever I go to get ammo.

It is bad enough the crap we put up with governments, the private companies have to go and make "LE" only stuff for no reason... Hornady is the HK of ammo. Now if only your product wasn't so good!

Hornady: Because you suck and we hate you.

 

[beltfed]

You guys need to start loading...way better ammo for a fraction of the costs...never mind the headache.

 

[ESQ]

I like to have a stash of reliable, sealed, factory ammo. I'll get into reloading for bulk practice.

 

[scottm]

You guys need to start loading...way better ammo for a fraction of the costs...never mind the headache.

Questions:
1.How much do you pay for bullet/powder/primer for cheap practice ammo equivalent to Fiocchi 223A which is about 45 cents a round?

-Best I've seen for bullets is 15 cents a piece before shipping. Primers I wild guesstimate at 6 cents a round. Powder about 9 cents a round? Say 30 cents before ancillary expenses like tumbler media, case lube etc.

2.How much to make good match ammo (equivalent to RUAG at about 85 cents a round to Lapua GB501 at about $1.50 a round)?

3.How long does it take you to turn a bag of 400 .223 cases swept off the range floor into boxed up usable practice ammunition?


I have easy access to a Dillon 550b, tumbler, scales etc. I'd just need dies. I used to reload 9mm for IPSC with a single stage Lee press (cast lead bullets 125 gr at 1030fps to make minimum). I can see reloading match ammo for the absolute best accuracy, but I'm lucky to get range time to use 400 rounds of .223 a month. Even less in the winter.

If I'm only saving about 15 cents times 400 = $60 a month for practice ammo and it takes several hours to polish, trim, chamfer, debur, size, load etc, the time spent building ammo wouldn't be very well spent for me.

 

[P of PDent]

We still have some of the Hornady 75 grn. TAP in .223. There is limited availablility in the TAP 5.56 ammo as we only get it from LE over runs so we can't order it with our commercial shipments. Phil.

 

[beltfed]

Questions:
1.How much do you pay for bullet/powder/primer for cheap practice ammo equivalent to Fiocchi 223A which is about 45 cents a round?

First off, I generally don't make cheap ammo to practice. I practice with match ammo, otherwise there isn't much point in practicing.
However, Making ammunition that is the equivilant to what you suggest is around $350 per 1000 rounds based on 5 loadings per piece of brass.

-Best I've seen for bullets is 15 cents a piece before shipping. Primers I wild guesstimate at 6 cents a round. Powder about 9 cents a round? Say 30 cents before ancillary expenses like tumbler media, case lube etc.

Sure 30 to 40 cents is about right.

-2.How much to make good match ammo (equivalent to RUAG at about 85 cents a round to Lapua GB501 at about $1.50 a round).

I've never fired the Lapua, so I cannot compare, but my handloads outperform RUAG and Blackhills match ammo by a fairly decent margin.
I believe my handloads are around $600 per 1000 with todays inflated prices.

-3.How long does it take you to turn a bag of 400 .223 cases swept off the range floor into boxed up usable practice ammunition?

Total time spent would be around 2 hours, I think.

-I have easy access to a Dillon 550b, tumbler, scales etc. I'd just need dies. I used to reload 9mm for IPSC with a single stage Lee press (cast lead bullets 125 gr at 1030fps to make minimum). I can see reloading match ammo for the absolute best accuracy, but I'm lucky to get range time to use 400 rounds of .223 a month. Even less in the winter.

If I'm only saving about 15 cents times 400 = $60 a month for practice ammo and it takes several hours to polish, trim, chamfer, debur, size, load etc, the time spent building ammo wouldn't be very well spent for me.

I see your point, and likewise, most people who handload don't really count their time spent as a factor in the cost. If I did that, I wouldn't do anything but work

 

[scottm]

Thanks for that info Beltfed. I'm not that great at shooting a carbine yet but am keen to get better. At my level, inexpensive 1.5 MOA ammo at shorter ranges is still useful to work on the basics of positional shooting, breathing, surprise trigger break, follow through etc. I'm a remarkably bad shot from the kneeling position at present

I think I'll get some dies before summer and make a few hundred rounds of the cheap stuff. Then I'll be in a position to make some of the better quality ammo to use at matches and perhaps for practice as my shooting skills improve.

It will be quite a while before something like RUAG GP90 will hold me back though. I saw an expert shooter's group at 500 meters prone deliberate with that ammo and an AR of the same type as mine (MR223). Very impressive.
"The required accuracy for Gw Pat 90 ammunition out of factory test barrels is 63 mm (0.72 MOA) for 10 rounds (100% radius measurement method) out to 300 m." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP90#5.6mm_Gw_Pat_90 )

I was going to link the target picture from the thread I saw it in but it was you who posted it! Never mind.

Most people who handload don't really count their time spent as a factor in the cost. If I did that, I wouldn't do anything but work

Don't get me wrong, I'm no workaholic. It's more of a choice of what to play at. I can see people getting enjoyment out of the act of reloading. Unfortunately I'm not one of them.

 

[ESQ]

In response to Beltfed:

You don't need to make match quality ammo for carbine practice. I agree that I would for bench rest or precision distance shooting.

But if it goes bang, is consistent, and I get 2-3 MOA out of it in my short ARs (similar performance to mil ammo), then it is fine for my purposes.

 

[olegs69]

I am concerned that my VZ858 does not penetrate. Where can I get some of this TAP stuff? Can I do double taps once I have it?
I don't know what a double tap is but it sounds high speed.