Bushmaster responds to questions about ACR

Raytheon

Raytheon

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Bushmaster responds to questions about ACR

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=184595&page=1

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/30/bushmaster-responds-to-questions-about-acr/

1st Topic M4 Bbl:
M4 profile was picked as a trade-off between weight and durability. We tested up to 6 bbl profiles (hvy, med, light, heavy under the handguard M4, M4, and fluted hvy). We found that the M4 offered the best weight/performance ratio.

2nd 1x9 Bbl Twist vs. 1x7:
1/7 bbl assemblies will be offered. BFI did 1:9 bc tests show that for 62 gr and under it was more accurate than 1:7. However, 1:9 does not stabilize 77 gr and above as well, so for customers requiring a. 1:7 it will be offered separate and installed in the rifle late spring.

3rd Civ weight vs. Mil Version:
The Mil version is still under development and weight reduction to 7lbs. is part of that process. When completed, application of those design changes and the use of alternate material components can be applied to the civ model.

4th Chrome lined vs. New Proprietary Coating:
Many have pointed out that the ACR barrels are not chrome lined and that is correct... They are not. That does not mean that they are not coated. As stated in our original press release the ACR barrels, and all internal components, feature a new, proprietary coatings that are substrate conversions which vastly increase durability, lubricity and reliability.

5th Pricing:
To make this weapon combat ready, and suitable for LE application and Civilian sales, it went thru revision after revision after revision. The ACR is not an inexpensive rifle to produce, it is of the highest quality and we are utilizing the most advanced materials available. The $1500 Retail price tag was not realistic. I know we all wanted to produce and offer this weapon for under $2k, but when the cost roll up is done, and all the pricing is tiered the realistic $’s are what we are showing.

6th BFI Targeting Modern Warfare Consumers
Absolutely not, especially when a large demographic playing this game are youth and we are very careful not to market to individuals who are not legally able to own a firearm, especially youth. We commented at the show on the phenomenon Modern Warfare 2 has caused, bringing the awareness of the ACR to an entire segment of the population that was previously unaware of it. But this product has never been targeted specifically to the players of video game. Our target, as it has been and remains, are professional firearms users, tactical firearms enthusiasts, target and competition shooters, and recreational shooters who value high quality, performance firearms.

Lastly, replacement bbls, buttstocks, forends, and caliber conv kits will be offered. We are setting up our accessory/spares program, and will release more info on this as we get closer to the offering.

Jarrod McDevitt
1-800-998-7928
Ext# .223

Bushmaster Firearms International, L.L.C
Made With Pride In The U.S.A.
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Later in the same discussion topic
1. They do not accept a std AR Bbl. However, spare bbls will be offered.
2. We did show the A-TAC Camo version at Shot, it will follow shortly after the release of the Enhanced ACR.
3. We will be offering the 6.8, 7.62x39, and 6.5.
4. No other trigger option avail..this one is pretty sweet.
5. Enhanced model does not go with an additional hgd, will go with the 3 rail only. Basic hgd will be offered separately.
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Answering some questions...
I'm saying what we started with was not a production ready combat product. This ACR is machined to the tightest tolerances possible, every piece of this weapon has been put thru rigorous testing, they are not a cheap weapon by any means.
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- Pricing is not avail on the replacement parts yet. We are focused on producing rifles and will get our spares/accessory program going at a later date once rifles are in the field.

- The bolt handle is ambidextrous, can be moved from right to left very easily.

- The ACR has a single stage trigger. Replacement parts: std AR hammer, trigger, disco, and aftermarket triggers are usable.

- I have no information or knowledge re: aftermarket stocks, bbls etc...

- Sight radius is adjustable as the sights can be moved forward & back. But when the rear sight is to the rear and the front sight is far forward it measures 15 1/4".
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Wow. I personally think BFI screwed this up. Being able to use standard AR barrels was a big thing from Magpul as it allowed people to get AR barrels from proven makers (*Noveske*) modified for use in the ACR. Having said that, if their barrels and triggers can meet the same accuracy and feel then it might be okay. I would like to know what exactly this new coating is. If it similar to an Robar NP3 used by POF then I think I would okay with that.

What do you guys think?
 
Seems to me, that its not QUITE as modular and AR15 compatible as first thought.

Although this may be a good thing for us, having less parts in common with AR15 will make non-restricted more likely.


It will easily hit 3500-4000 dollars by the time it gets up here though.... Might as well go with the time tested and rock solid durable SIG for that price.
 
I agree it is not worth the price. It seems they are keeping it in the price lines of the FN SCAR. Which I think will put more people to buy an AR, XCR, or SIG in the meantime. Considering BFI and Remington still sell ARs I think they don't want us to buys ACRs yet until they have exhausted the AR15 as I have posted elsewhere. As the Freedom Group (Cerebus) owns Remington, BFI and DPMS which all sell AR15s.

Part of me doesn't really buy that the $1500 price tag being unrealistic. Magpul isn't stupid and they were able to create working prototypes that from early reports were reliable. They sent some of the prototypes to several authors to test and received good reviews and that it was reliable. I remember they quoted having a failure when using UK sub powered loads but that was it. What I do believe is that it wasn't a production ready combat rifle. As Magpul stated they did not have the expertise to put it into mass production which would likely result in several reliability problems. Which is why they licensed the production out.

I appears that they still developing it as they did not have all the information at the SHOT Show. I'll wait until the price drops, they have made more "improvements" to the system, and have more options and third party accessories available. I'm happy with what I have now.
 
Meh...they are just hitting the market. Just getting that rifle off the drawing board and into production is a huge step. As the guys get moving prices will come down, features will be removed or added and the gun will evolve and sell. It just takes time.

It took the 1911 pistol a hundred years to get where it is today, and the AR about half that...
 
Bushmaster's man on AR-15 is absolutely incompetent. He's only managed to piss off an already pissy crowd with his poor public relations skills. No one buys his poor attempts at answering legitimate questions, and the really tough questions are left unanswered. Bushmaster has seriously underestimated the desires and knowledge of the community. Perhaps their real aim is the bloated wallets of the less informed. I'm not quite sure they exist though.

I'm not surprised that a lot of people would prefer to spend their money on one of the many .308/7.62 semi-autos coming out this year, a SCAR or XCR, or another high end AR.

The Bushmaster ACRs are very unattractive IMO... however, Remington Military's piston AR and ACR are interesting, although unattainable.
 
The pricing is BS. How can a small company like RobArms develop and bring to market the XCR for less than the ACR. The ACR has many more molded parts so should be a lot cheaper. I call BS! They can keep it at anything over $1500.
 
The worst part of the pricing of the ACR is that I suspect that Bushmaster set MSRP according to what the SCAR-16S was going for in the last year, and NOT according to their own actual development and production costs as they suggested.

This is a huge mistake because: 1) ACR is not SCAR by any means, despite visual similarities, 2) the market is very different today compared to last year. SCAR-16S today sits on shelves at several hundred dollars below ACR's MSRP for the BASIC model.
 
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Bushmaster is rather dumb, they cannot compare ACR to SCAR. The SCAR is refined through trials for years and it is actually field with production model. No matter how ingenious Magpul is, it is still a new product and the production model has no experience. It is another case of Beta by fire using consumer - but this time the consumers will pay ALOT to be be beta testers.
 
Whoever thought BSI was targetting Modern Warfare 2 consumers needs to give it more thought. It's like saying Brazilian tourism is targeting gamers because there is a level taking place in a Brazilian slum.
 
Bushmaster really screwed us with the ACR. They ran up costs through the roof trying to market it to the military as an M4 replacement and then passed off the cost to us serfs.
 
greentips said:
Bushmaster is rather dumb, they cannot compare ACR to SCAR. The SCAR is refined through trials for years and it is actually field with production model. No matter how ingenious Magpul is, it is still a new product and the production model has no experience. It is another case of Beta by fire using consumer - but this time the consumers will pay ALOT to be be beta testers.
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I agree that bushmaster is dumb to compare the ACR to the SCAR. However I'm surprised that the SCAR still has the reciprocating charging handle considering it was refined through trials. Supposedly it is creating a bunch of problems currently in the field.

I agree that the ACR has absolutely no real experience or independent trials to compare it properly to other weapon systems.

The ACR, SCAR, and XCR are so far the only "3rd generation" carbines in production. The CZ S805 is supposed go into production but I don't know when. So I think they are pricing them high because of the lack of competition generally and to further exploit the AR system as both FN and the Freedom Group still build ARs. As I've said elsewhere, I think the XCR has the most the gain from this as they start at $1500 according to their website and have most of the "3rd generation" (I'm not sure I like the term) features such as quick change barrels, more ambidextrous controls, gas piston system, 7.5 lbs empty weight, and multiple caliber capability.
 
Raytheon said:
I agree that bushmaster is dumb to compare the ACR to the SCAR. However I'm surprised that the SCAR still has the reciprocating charging handle considering it was refined through trials. Supposedly it is creating a bunch of problems currently in the field.
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Because that is what end-users asked for - what people want and the reality of what it delivers may not be 100% aligned. The mechanism of a a reciprocating charging handle is much simpler and can be used as a FA.

AK, SIG, FNC, FAMAS, SA80, G36, Beretta ARX 160....all have reciprocating charging handles on the left or foldable - it is just that the American vision (or obsessions) of "right side" reciprocating handle does not work out, which was probably figured out to be unworkable by the Europeans long time ago.

The simple remedy is to put the handle on the left instead of the right, which is readily doable with SCAR.
 
MrNg said:
Whoever thought BSI was targetting Modern Warfare 2 consumers needs to give it more thought. It's like saying Brazilian tourism is targeting gamers because there is a level taking place in a Brazilian slum.
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I had to laugh at when I read that too. People are so stupid.
 
MrNg said:
Whoever thought BSI was targetting Modern Warfare 2 consumers needs to give it more thought. It's like saying Brazilian tourism is targeting gamers because there is a level taking place in a Brazilian slum.
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Yep, first person shooter games lose a fair amount of appeal when you can just go to the range and make noise with real guns, at least imo.
 
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