858 0r sks?
- Thread starter davecasey
- Start date
Do tell why you believe the 858 isn't worth the money? Its a superior system to the SKS as well as the AK.
TDC
Dude in G.P.
CGN Regular
- Location
- Having Fun on The Firing Line
By all means bjs7293 enlighten us with your worldly experience, enquiring minds want to know.
Like any other "tool" each has its advantages and disadvantages.
I currently own an couple of AR's, several VZ variants (585 and older 52/57), and two
SKS's (Chinese and Russian). I also have a couple of prohibs in the safe from my University Days when you could buy real M14's cheap.......
They have been aquired over the years and at each stage of my life they have served different purposes.
M14 was purchase on a shoe string when .308 ammo was $3.99 for a box of 20.
After graduation, the Chinese SKS was purchased so I could still shoot while paying off student loans (I still have boxes of original Norinco non-corrosive ammo).
Soon after the VZ-52/58 was purchased as the SKS wasn't the best quality and the fit and finish of the VZ was miles ahead of Norinco's best effort at that time.
Couple of years ago I got back into the M14 game with the Norinco M305. Only too discover that ammuntion prices for this baby had gotten kind of high.
Fast forward to last year I developed the AR bug, when disposable income became available. Neat design, but the lack of affordable ammo due to various wars resulted in me questioning this purchase. In its original guise its a pretty handy lightweight carbine. Tricked out like an over aged "lady" of the night and its heavy, akward, and combersome. Not too mention it looks plain ugly.
Most recently, I purchased another Russian SKS (at 350 for a refurb and crate of ammo -I'd be nuts not too). While its fit and finish is better than the Norinco of old it is a pretty hefty gun.
The latest purchase has been a brace of VZ-858's in both restricted and non-restricted flavours as a result of a car accident I was in 4 years ago.
It has left me with constant back pain that had me looking for something lighter to take to the range.
The VZ has become one of my favourite designs. It is simple, lightweight, accurate, and rugged to beat all.
The beaver barf "furniture" may not be too everyones liking but it is tough and as close to bomb proof as I have found on a gun.
Ergonomics is just about perfect. Sliding ones cheek forward/backward on the buttstock allows you to get a good cheek weld on either the factory sights or the dot sight mounted on the forend. Recoil is very mild given the weight of the rifle and one can attest to the thought that went into its design.
Haven't had it jam as the wide open top half of the receiver allows empties to eject easily out of the gun.
Firing 20-30 round slow strings (5 at a time) off hand with both the SKS and VZ-858 shows how different the two guns are. SKS due to its weight and front end bias becomes somewhat of a chore near the end. In contrast, the VZ points pretty quickly and the sights line up faster (for me). Hits appear to come easier with the VZ than the SKS due to (in my opinion) the superior man/machine interface. The folding stock restricted VZ has become my current favourite gun to take out to the range.
Ammunition is plentiful (for now) and it is an enjoyable.
It hits what I am aiming at out to 200 yards even with my aging eyes...
Can't ask anything more from a tool......
L
I currently own an couple of AR's, several VZ variants (585 and older 52/57), and two
SKS's (Chinese and Russian). I also have a couple of prohibs in the safe from my University Days when you could buy real M14's cheap.......
They have been aquired over the years and at each stage of my life they have served different purposes.
M14 was purchase on a shoe string when .308 ammo was $3.99 for a box of 20.
After graduation, the Chinese SKS was purchased so I could still shoot while paying off student loans (I still have boxes of original Norinco non-corrosive ammo).
Soon after the VZ-52/58 was purchased as the SKS wasn't the best quality and the fit and finish of the VZ was miles ahead of Norinco's best effort at that time.
Couple of years ago I got back into the M14 game with the Norinco M305. Only too discover that ammuntion prices for this baby had gotten kind of high.
Fast forward to last year I developed the AR bug, when disposable income became available. Neat design, but the lack of affordable ammo due to various wars resulted in me questioning this purchase. In its original guise its a pretty handy lightweight carbine. Tricked out like an over aged "lady" of the night and its heavy, akward, and combersome. Not too mention it looks plain ugly.
Most recently, I purchased another Russian SKS (at 350 for a refurb and crate of ammo -I'd be nuts not too). While its fit and finish is better than the Norinco of old it is a pretty hefty gun.
The latest purchase has been a brace of VZ-858's in both restricted and non-restricted flavours as a result of a car accident I was in 4 years ago.
It has left me with constant back pain that had me looking for something lighter to take to the range.
The VZ has become one of my favourite designs. It is simple, lightweight, accurate, and rugged to beat all.
The beaver barf "furniture" may not be too everyones liking but it is tough and as close to bomb proof as I have found on a gun.
Ergonomics is just about perfect. Sliding ones cheek forward/backward on the buttstock allows you to get a good cheek weld on either the factory sights or the dot sight mounted on the forend. Recoil is very mild given the weight of the rifle and one can attest to the thought that went into its design.
Haven't had it jam as the wide open top half of the receiver allows empties to eject easily out of the gun.
Firing 20-30 round slow strings (5 at a time) off hand with both the SKS and VZ-858 shows how different the two guns are. SKS due to its weight and front end bias becomes somewhat of a chore near the end. In contrast, the VZ points pretty quickly and the sights line up faster (for me). Hits appear to come easier with the VZ than the SKS due to (in my opinion) the superior man/machine interface. The folding stock restricted VZ has become my current favourite gun to take out to the range.
Ammunition is plentiful (for now) and it is an enjoyable.
It hits what I am aiming at out to 200 yards even with my aging eyes...
Can't ask anything more from a tool......
L
Very well put, i agree with it all and alot of those reasons i chose the vz over the rest(but im young and have no back problems), that and all these great NEA and Rauch products coming out. Im still trying to beat it into peoples heads that lighter is better and light doesn't mean its cheap. Its very hard to get people past the idea that heavy means quality that's been instilled in them since birth. Hey its not electronics. I really don't see any better gun for me than the vz58 in a caliber smaller than .308 and i can get an AK here. I have done years of research before deciding on the VZ58, out of everything ive found on multiple guns the VZ58 has almost nothing negative said about it, all other guns do, and you avoid both ar and ak fanboy debates.
the cz 858 is the price of any pistol. well worth the price from a cost to produce, ship and import perspective. the sks is bought for $10, would cost significantly more than that to produce in todays world. would easily rival the price of a cz. with that said which is the better gun? I think the cz, simply because it has removable mags.
You ever have a 858? I got mine last winter, i'm close to 1000 rounds fired with it, never had any malfunction, fired it in cold,snow fired hundreds rds non stop. Paint is still like new. I have sks, but the 858 is better IMAO.
Dude in G.P.
CGN Regular
- Location
- Having Fun on The Firing Line
"the cz 858 looks cheap, feels cheap and the paints wears of the barrel after 20 rounds through the mag. SKS is a much better made rifle than the cz 858. Also they jam and misfire all the time."
Wow, you can really tell the people who have handled and shot a 858 vs those who have no clue.
Please enlighten us with your experience westwest, enquiring minds wish to know. i'm sure a blanket statement about the 858 jamming and misfiring all the time has some kind of factual story behind it.
Wow, you can really tell the people who have handled and shot a 858 vs those who have no clue.
Please enlighten us with your experience westwest, enquiring minds wish to know. i'm sure a blanket statement about the 858 jamming and misfiring all the time has some kind of factual story behind it.
"Its a superior system to the SKS as well as the AK" haha
How in the world CZ 858 became superior to AK. AK is rated number one in the world. Please enlight me. In my opinion it is a nephew of AK.
Rated number one for what? They dont call it spray and pray for nothing.
"the sks is bought for $10, would cost significantly more than that to produce in todays world."
Where did you get that $10 tag I will buy 5 containers if you can point me to that person that told you so. Trust me there is no way in hell that you get them for 10 bucks, It is no where close to 10 bucks. It just upsets me that people who don't know SH@%T talk a lot.
As to production of CZ I do not know how much it cost to produce it. It is not 700 for sure, having said that I know that people that do import it are not the people who sell those. More hands touches those more money it will cost in the end. It is a new production it will cost more to produce than something that was produced and stored.
Where did you get that $10 tag I will buy 5 containers if you can point me to that person that told you so. Trust me there is no way in hell that you get them for 10 bucks, It is no where close to 10 bucks. It just upsets me that people who don't know SH@%T talk a lot.
As to production of CZ I do not know how much it cost to produce it. It is not 700 for sure, having said that I know that people that do import it are not the people who sell those. More hands touches those more money it will cost in the end. It is a new production it will cost more to produce than something that was produced and stored.
"Its a superior system to the SKS as well as the AK" haha
How in the world CZ 858 became superior to AK. AK is rated number one in the world. Please enlight me. In my opinion it is a nephew of AK.
Short stroke gas system
machined receiver
Open top design facilitates easier clearance of stoppages
last round hold open
Lighter than an AK
Easy access safety/selector(although backwards to most selectors)
I don't know, you tell me why the AK is better?? The AK has been manufactured in greater numbers, thats it.
TDC
Dude in G.P.
CGN Regular
- Location
- Having Fun on The Firing Line
Here's one for ya:
How come the Czech's was the only combloc country that was not forced to go with the Ak 47 or variant thereof? Or did i miss a country?
No, the Vz-58 is not a variant of the AK.
The main reason the Ak is so prolific is because the USSR financed every little war or revolution that opposed democracy.
Please enlighten us....
How come the Czech's was the only combloc country that was not forced to go with the Ak 47 or variant thereof? Or did i miss a country?
No, the Vz-58 is not a variant of the AK.
The main reason the Ak is so prolific is because the USSR financed every little war or revolution that opposed democracy.
Please enlighten us....
Howdy Buddah
New member
- Location
- White Rock B.C.
Dude....$700 is for the 858 and the $200 is to 'also' buy the SKS.
Total for the 2 guns $900.
P.S. The 858 is a blast! The restricted one I have got the most attention at the range, over the non restricted models.
Total for the 2 guns $900.
P.S. The 858 is a blast! The restricted one I have got the most attention at the range, over the non restricted models.
- Location
- Keswick, Ontario
"Its a superior system to the SKS as well as the AK" haha
How in the world CZ 858 became superior to AK. AK is rated number one in the world. Please enlight me. In my opinion it is a nephew of AK.
Rated number one in what?
WOW..everyone else beat me to it. There, consider yourself enlightened
Looks are not one of my top criteria for judging a rifle. I have never had any paint come off any of my CZ at any rate.
In regards to jamming, after seeing a few with over 50,000 rounds through them, and those 4 issues being operator error, I think MAYBE yours might be operator induced?
You say "they" jam and misfire. How many have you owned?
