Men use revolvers, wieners shoot fast with semis

mlehtovaara said:
That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Everyone who is planning on using a gun for self defense needs to concern themselves with overpenetration. It is hard enough to get away with defending oneself in this country as it is. If you killed the neighbours kid you might as well have let the other guy kill you. And please explain how you are gonna load 6 rounds into your cz. Unless you are storing your gun illegally you will not have the time to do this. And the fact I can keep my 9mm in the bedside safe is another thing altogether. You are entitled to your opinion but your opinion is not mine, and definetily not fact.
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Really??? The proven fact is that .223 or x39 frangible ammo penetrates less than most (not all, but let's be selective here) common defensive handgun rounds. One of the reasons that the majority of police tac teams got away from the MP5 and other pistol caliber carbines was 1. cost; and 2. over penetration...

As to 6 rds in the CZ, one in the tube and 5 in the mag equals 6 - I know that I drank a lot of beer in college, but I'm still pretty sure that's right. That shouldn't have been too hard to figure out...

I keep a rifle or a shotgun in the bedroom whenever I'm there and it's just as easy to access becouse neither are restrcted, just something to think about.


peace and hair grease

blake
 
TDC said:
The Hammerli would be better than nothing but its far from ideal.

LE most definitely have a long gun at their disposal. Failure to sign one out or bring one along is their choice.

There are 34 "shall issue" states and 10 "may issue" making for a total of 44 states where the right to defend yourself hasn't been violated. CCW in Canada is for the most part illegal. It is not however, something you "can't" do as you say as an "absolute". Again, a long gun should always be part of the plan, whether it be in the car or close by at home. Regardless, the quote has many interpretations and the quote isn't mine. Regardless of how you interpret the quotes, what I post is what I know and I have yet to see someone dispute it.

TDC
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So are you saying my old Hammerli was designed as a means to fight my way to a rifle?

The reason that is not true for the vast majority of pistol users is that most encounters do not last long enough for the pistol user to get to a rifle, because most pistol users aren't carrying a rifle. I understand the quote isn't yours...my point is that you are confidently asserting it without considering the fact that it is actually not applicable to the vast majority of people.




I will, though, have to advise a couple of the cops I know in other countries that they are in fact entitled to a rifle or shotgun and that the only reason for them not to have one is that they did not sign one out for their patrol.

I am sure they will be surprised and excited and I will forward your contact info to them to explain their departmental policy to their superiors in the event of any difficulties.
 
Aw geez... Let's see what the Box o'Truth has to say:

Rifle & pistol vs. 12 sheets drywall: h ttp://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

More of the above, with water jugs and bricks added: h ttp://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2_2.htm

The Box meets .45 Long Colt: h ttp://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot28.htm
 
TDC said:
The three common handgun calibres 9/40/45 all penetrate more interior walls than .223. Over penetration is an issue with nearly all calibres. The concern of OP is only a concern AFTER you survive the encounter. I'm not thrilled with the thought of sending rounds outside my home anymore than the next guy. The reality is that such issues are only relevant after the fight is over. Concerning oneself with OP or "was I justified" or "should I have used a restricted firearm" during the event is both highly unlikely and counter productive to surviving. If you're worried about these things, then don't reach for a firearm to defend yourself.

TDC
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Could you kindly provide some references for this? I'd greatly appreciate it.

I know that 5.56mm rounds lose a lot of their terminal performance (on organic targets) beyond 300m, depending on the platform it is fired from. However I have been briefed that NATO standard 5.56mm SS109 projectiles can penetrate US M1 Steel pot helmets (Vietnam variety) as far as 1300m when fired from an 20-inch barrel. http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_762.html

Now, when it comes to barrier penetration, the basic answer is "it depends"... It depends on barrel length, powder charge, projectile type, the barrier(s) in question, penetration angle, etc etc etc ad nauseum. Now I'm sure most people don't have access to SS109 ball ammo, so I'm not sure how well civilian projectiles perform compared to NATO stuff. My field of experience and training is focused on Military standard stuff, so that's where I'll limit my writing.

Still, here's an interesting video from the USMC showing penetration effects of various weapons and projectiles. Not sure if this has been posted before.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6760530260633420235#
 
Milofficer said:
Could you kindly provide some references for this? I'd greatly appreciate it.

I know that 5.56mm rounds lose a lot of their terminal performance (on organic targets) beyond 300m, depending on the platform it is fired from. However I have been briefed that NATO standard 5.56mm SS109 projectiles can penetrate US M1 Steel pot helmets (Vietnam variety) as far as 1300m when fired from an 20-inch barrel. http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_762.html

Now, when it comes to barrier penetration, the basic answer is "it depends"... It depends on barrel length, powder charge, projectile type, the barrier(s) in question, penetration angle, etc etc etc ad nauseum. Now I'm sure most people don't have access to SS109 ball ammo, so I'm not sure how well civilian projectiles perform compared to NATO stuff. My field of experience and training is focused on Military standard stuff, so that's where I'll limit my writing.

Still, here's an interesting video from the USMC showing penetration effects of various weapons and projectiles. Not sure if this has been posted before.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6760530260633420235#
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Milofficer,

As you noted, those are all examples of the penetration charactereistics of NATO-spec FMJ (in all probability SS109/M855/C77) munitions in the 5.56, not frangible ammunition which exhibit radically different properties vis-a-vis penetration, and which civilians are free to use.

Caliber aside, apples and oranges...
 
POLK COUNTY FLORIDA SHERIFF GRADY JUDD

An illegal alien in Polk County Florida who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop ended up 'executing' the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed. A state-wide manhunt ensued.

The murderer was found hiding in a wooded area and as soon as he took a shot at the SWAT team, officers opened fire on him. They hit the guy 68 times.

Naturally, the liberal media went nuts and asked why they had to shoot the poor undocumented immigrant 68 times.

Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel: 'Because that's all the ammunition we had.'

The Coroner also reported that the illegal alien died of natural causes. When asked by a reporter how that could be since there were 68 bullet wounds in his body, he simply replied "when you are shot 68 times you are naturally gonna die."
 
Pistol calibers suck?

Sundown said:
It scares me that people still think a few mm's of difference in projectile size actually make a difference in a gunfight. Pistol calibers all suck. Ask anyone who works in the ER or does autopsies.
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Lots of autopsies of dead folk shot by 9mm in TO...not sure of your definition of suck? Suck as in doesn't do as much internal damage as a rifle round? Maybe, but yer still dead!
 
mudgunner49 said:
Milofficer,

As you noted, those are all examples of the penetration charactereistics of NATO-spec FMJ (in all probability SS109/M855/C77) munitions in the 5.56, not frangible ammunition which exhibit radically different properties vis-a-vis penetration, and which civilians are free to use.

Caliber aside, apples and oranges...
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You make a good point. I probably should have specified the video was dealing with USMC - standard weapons. Much as I'd love to own a SMAW or 30mm Chaingun, I doubt they'd be civvy legal lol.
 
mudgunner49 said:
Really??? As to 6 rds in the CZ, one in the tube and 5 in the mag equals 6 - I know that I drank a lot of beer in college, but I'm still pretty sure that's right. That shouldn't have been too hard to figure out...

I keep a rifle or a shotgun in the bedroom whenever I'm there and it's just as easy to access becouse neither are restrcted, just something to think about.


peace and hair grease

blake
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I know how to put 6 rounds in the gun but unless it is being stored illegally with one in the pipe, it would be ridiculous to think that in a shtf situation you would take the time to load 1 in the chamber then insert a fresh mag. Even if you had 2 loaded mags on hand and loaded the first chambered a round and then inserted the second you still only have 10 rounds available. 6 in your laded gun and 4 in the other mag. Like I said before I am trying to keep a perspective of real life scenarios here.
 
holy #### now you're an expert on what all the agencies in the world do, amazing. How do you find the time to peruse every single department policy in the world? Well in fact it's obvious you don't, because you are patently wrong, again. Not all police agencies issue, or make available long guns to their members. Nor do all security units have access to them, so as Mis. stated, a lot of times a handgun is all they have, which means they aren't fighting back to their rifle/shotgun. Maybe it's time you took your own advice and got out of your mom's basement?

TDC said:
LE most definitely have a long gun at their disposal. Failure to sign one out or bring one along is their choice.


TDC
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roadkill7205 said:
Uh, so for somebody who isn't looking to defend his castle against thieves, zombies or Stormtroopers, do real men use revolvers or semis?

:D
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Real men shoot whatever the hell they want and don't worry about what a bunch of weenies on the internet think they should be shooting... ;) :p
 
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