... weak!
Using the slide stop to drop the slide on an empty chamber (IPSC Global Village)
- Thread starter Wendell
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For starters, round is a shape and I'm working on perfecting that. Seriously though, my physical condition is irrelevant to the conversation. The topic at hand is the practice of using the slide stop and dry firing/dropping the hammer to "show clear". The operators physical, moral, ethical, ethnic, marital status or age have zero bearing on an ignorant "rule" brought about to cater to those who cannot adhere to FOUR simple rules.
I participate in three gun matches, that is true. I don't do it to win, I do it as a means of wringing out my gear and my ability to apply the skills and tactics I've learned and practiced. I find it much more interesting when someone else sets up the COF.
I don't believe I've failed to understand the "reasons" behind ignorant rules. What I've "failed" to do is buy into the bullsh*t excuses used to validate such garbage.
I don't understand your last sentence. How would I "put up"? Did you want to meet after school by the bike racks or should we select a street and meet at high noon? If I'm such the keyboard commando and you apparently are not, why are you a moderator on this site? Based on your profile and mine, we've got nearly the same average post rate so what does that make you?? On a side note, the bolded letters above should be capitalized as they are the beginning of a sentence. Seeing how I strive for perfection(which cannot be obtained) I thought I'd let you in on your errors. Of course, when someone such as yourself attacks my belief that striving for perfection is flawed simply because I haven't obtained such status in all that I do, I have to ask. What do you strive for?
TDC
TDC, CGN is not your own personal soapbox. If you have issues with Slavex PM him, dont post garbage on the thread.
The difference between you and me TDC is I actually can back up my arguments about shooting and the use of firearms through the many private clients, competitions and training courses I've been a part of. Due to my supposed expertise I consult and train with LEO on a regular basis, including sims force on force and other similar training. And its not because I sit at home running my fat ass off on a keyboard (and yeah I am a fat ass too), its because I recognize that there are many many different schools of though in the firearms world, and many .any different ways of doing things, and that while many are junk there are lots that are valid and work for me, and lots that are valid and don't work for me. But I've tried them used them and moved on. Hell even stuff I think is junk could be gold for someone else.
You foolish to think the safety orotocalls used in IPSC are unneeded, they are simply an extension of the fundamental 4 that specific to the circumstances of our sport. They have evolved out of the 4 to provide a more rigid safety environment in which you find absolutely new shooters, who just being at a match is intimidatimg enough, and these rules help.
The best shooters and instructors on the planet grasp these concepts and have no problem with them, and tell you so if you take training with them.
Furthermore you might notice that the drop draw instructors in the USA, are all IPSC guys, including the likes of Rob Leatham, Todd Jarred,. Travis Tomassie etc. All guys who follow USPSA rules or custom fit based on customera.
The put up or shut up means simple, show us that your knowledge works. Prove it. Show us DMD has you teaching the Ski Team or the Cold Sores. Or Gravel Road Cops are beating your door down to learn from you.
Real world experience counts for a lot dude. 3 gin matches is a start, but to think there is no value in IPSC shows you little you know. We do things they way gunfights happen.suddenly and with no warning. Wr pie corners, use barricades etc.
And if you want you can have fun too.
Spelling is half drunk half using a. Blackberry to post
You foolish to think the safety orotocalls used in IPSC are unneeded, they are simply an extension of the fundamental 4 that specific to the circumstances of our sport. They have evolved out of the 4 to provide a more rigid safety environment in which you find absolutely new shooters, who just being at a match is intimidatimg enough, and these rules help.
The best shooters and instructors on the planet grasp these concepts and have no problem with them, and tell you so if you take training with them.
Furthermore you might notice that the drop draw instructors in the USA, are all IPSC guys, including the likes of Rob Leatham, Todd Jarred,. Travis Tomassie etc. All guys who follow USPSA rules or custom fit based on customera.
The put up or shut up means simple, show us that your knowledge works. Prove it. Show us DMD has you teaching the Ski Team or the Cold Sores. Or Gravel Road Cops are beating your door down to learn from you.
Real world experience counts for a lot dude. 3 gin matches is a start, but to think there is no value in IPSC shows you little you know. We do things they way gunfights happen.suddenly and with no warning. Wr pie corners, use barricades etc.
And if you want you can have fun too.
Spelling is half drunk half using a. Blackberry to post
Thanks Bob.
Interestingly, I have no problem shooting guns with heavy triggers accurately either, but as you've noted, the finely fitted IPSC racing guns are specifically built to perform at high speed in competition (which is where I live). They are NOT built for combat, and even if someone thought they might be able to re-purpose a racing gun for this application, with their typical ultra-light competition triggers they would be a liability nightmare anyway.
These guns would roughly equate to comparing an F-1 racing car with your average plain-Jane-sedan people mover. And in the same way as a racing car couldn't be used to drive to the grocery store or to pick up the kids from day care, the racing gun's purpose is quite narrow and specific. The whole concept in such a piece of equipment is to permit the shooter who knows what they are doing to shoot accurate shots much more quickly than can be done with a stock gun. And it definitely works. This is not a crutch as some people seem to think, but rather a mechanical enhancement that helps wring maximum, limit-of-human-function performance from an existing skill set.
People who know how to shoot can generally shoot just about anything. The choice of equipment is just a question of how far they want to push the edge. And anyone who thinks an IPSC racing gun needs to be babied or coddled doesn't understand how they are used. Putting 20 to 40,000 rounds of magnum level loads through a handgun in a year is hardly babying it, but such a schedule would certainly require some pretty detailed care and maintenance if you want to stay in the game.
For starters, round is a shape and I'm working on perfecting that. Seriously though, my physical condition is irrelevant to the conversation. The topic at hand is the practice of using the slide stop and dry firing/dropping the hammer to "show clear". The operators physical, moral, ethical, ethnic, marital status or age have zero bearing on an ignorant "rule" brought about to cater to those who cannot adhere to FOUR simple rules.
I participate in three gun matches, that is true. I don't do it to win, I do it as a means of wringing out my gear and my ability to apply the skills and tactics I've learned and practiced. I find it much more interesting when someone else sets up the COF.
I don't believe I've failed to understand the "reasons" behind ignorant rules. What I've "failed" to do is buy into the bullsh*t excuses used to validate such garbage.
I don't understand your last sentence. How would I "put up"? Did you want to meet after school by the bike racks or should we select a street and meet at high noon? If I'm such the keyboard commando and you apparently are not, why are you a moderator on this site? Based on your profile and mine, we've got nearly the same average post rate so what does that make you?? On a side note, the bolded letters above should be capitalized as they are the beginning of a sentence. Seeing how I strive for perfection(which cannot be obtained) I thought I'd let you in on your errors. Of course, when someone such as yourself attacks my belief that striving for perfection is flawed simply because I haven't obtained such status in all that I do, I have to ask. What do you strive for?
TDC
I think he means you talky-talky with no walky-walky. You spew but no chew. Why won't you participate in an organized shooting sport? I think I will bet money on you never participating in IPSC or IDPA. You have an ego based on your knowledge of the force,...it takes to open a bag of potatoe chips in front of the keyboard.
Ego would be horribly devastated after trying to shoot against a shooter like Slavex or RElliott in any shooting sport. Maybe it would be safer to just stay indoors.
TDC you say you don't enter 3 gun matches to win. Well I have news for you and something you ought to reflect on.
At any given match be it IPSC or IDPA there can only be one winner in any division that particular day. So why do 20 to 120 guys show up at a match knowing only one can "win"?
Well winning takes many forms. Most of us strive to be the best we can be on that given day. It matters not that Maurice would beat my score that day at IPSC or that relliott shoots an IDPA match 15 seconds faster than I. It only matters that I shot the best I could that day.
If I happen to beat all competitors in my division so be it. It really wouldn't matter one iota to Maurice if he shot the best he could that day and came in 2nd or 15th. I know he would be the first to congratulate me and he would still feel good about himself. Hell I have never met Maurice and know that about him.
You should go out to an local IDPA or a local IPSC match and test yuor theories about gun handling, shooting etc. It would give you a yardstick on your own performance and an opportunity to reflect on what you know, what you think you know and what you have yet to learn.
Take Care
Bob
ps The above is fantasy island given my expectation that Maurice likely would hand me my behind on his worst day.
At any given match be it IPSC or IDPA there can only be one winner in any division that particular day. So why do 20 to 120 guys show up at a match knowing only one can "win"?
Well winning takes many forms. Most of us strive to be the best we can be on that given day. It matters not that Maurice would beat my score that day at IPSC or that relliott shoots an IDPA match 15 seconds faster than I. It only matters that I shot the best I could that day.
If I happen to beat all competitors in my division so be it. It really wouldn't matter one iota to Maurice if he shot the best he could that day and came in 2nd or 15th. I know he would be the first to congratulate me and he would still feel good about himself. Hell I have never met Maurice and know that about him.
You should go out to an local IDPA or a local IPSC match and test yuor theories about gun handling, shooting etc. It would give you a yardstick on your own performance and an opportunity to reflect on what you know, what you think you know and what you have yet to learn.
Take Care
Bob
ps The above is fantasy island given my expectation that Maurice likely would hand me my behind on his worst day.
this is something to reflect on, and I know TDC does not play well and his excuse would be that someone had a fancier gun than him if he lost badly. Well, I came in a distance 3rd this weekend at an IPSC match in Montreal,..not because of any difference in guns (all CZ type firearms), but because I was beat by a better shooter. Unlike persons who blame the gear or guns, I lost because I did not put the time in to practice, and did not focus enough. Other shooters who do better than you at a match come prepared for the match.
Yup and sometimes they just have more talent...and that is ok too. Gives a person a reason to practice more.
Take Care
Bob
Wow, and the usual personal attacks continue. I'll post some responses to several questions from several posts, so read through and find the answer that fits your question.
Private clients and instructing LEO's does not validate what you teach. It simply illustrates your ability to convince others to seek your training. I'm not saying its poor nor am I saying its good. Posting who and/or what you've trained cannot be validated as factual either. I'm willing to give you the benefit.
The fact that you offer your services and I do not is a moot point. I never indicated that I was some "super trainer" nor do I intend to offer my abilities for hire. All of what I know I learned from others and other schools. I have respect for these groups/individuals and will not regurgitate what they teach to further my financial standing.
Proving what I know is difficult through a computer. What is more relevant is trying to prove or disprove it through intelligent debate. No one has offered any rebuttals to what I post. This tells me you(no one in particular) either haven't the knowledge to support your side of an argument, or you're wrong.
The fundamental four(FF) cover everything necessary for the safe handling of firearms. Do explain what additional rules cover that the FF do not? Again as noted previously, if IPSC and IDPA are so safe, why are there no shortage of incidents of negligent discharges?? The answer is that someone failed to follow a rule or rules. Instituting more rules does nothing for those who fail to follow just one of those rules.
I agree that for first time competitors and relatively novice shooters that a match can be intimidating. However, this is no excuse for poor firearms handling or the addition of ignorant redundant rules. Give the new shooters the benefit of the doubt. If they prove they are incapable of adhering to the FF then remove them from the match. Oh wait, I know why this doesn't work, you might hurt someone's feelings... Too bad! Shooting is a big boy activity, if you can't follow the rules you don't play.
I don't compete in IPSC and never have. Its full of ignorant rules, unrealistic scenarios, pointless "divisions",is designed to cater to the 1911 crowd, complete lack of tactics and is expensive. I have shot IDPA(not a sanctioned event) and it was enjoyable. Again, IDPA has too many divisions, has become a "game" not a discipline designed to improve ones performance with a defensive firearm. Like IPSC, IDPA lacks tactics, and often involves ignorant unrealistic rules and/or limitations.
Winning is always nice and yes you're right Bob, we all compete in hopes of winning. However, unlike many who are serious competitors, I do not compete SOLELY to win. If I place, great. If I don't, I could care less. Unlike many, I will not compromise my training and/or tactics to shave time or better my score. I'm only competing against myself. So long as I practice what I preach and do so with any sort of grace I'm happy. Improving my performance is what I'm after, not proving my performance is better than that of anyone else.
Fancy guns and gear mean nothing to me. I run stock(relatively stock) gear based on two criteria. They must be utterly reliable and simple to operate. I'm sure an "open" ISPC gun with optics and all the trimmings could put my scores to shame. That being said, I have no doubt the same gun would choke in adverse conditions and be next to useless should the optic fail. Everything is a compromise, and compromising the reliability and ease of use for a potential gain in performance is unacceptable for a defensive firearm. My guns aren't setup for competing, so I don't expect to compete against those who's guns are.
TDC
Private clients and instructing LEO's does not validate what you teach. It simply illustrates your ability to convince others to seek your training. I'm not saying its poor nor am I saying its good. Posting who and/or what you've trained cannot be validated as factual either. I'm willing to give you the benefit.
The fact that you offer your services and I do not is a moot point. I never indicated that I was some "super trainer" nor do I intend to offer my abilities for hire. All of what I know I learned from others and other schools. I have respect for these groups/individuals and will not regurgitate what they teach to further my financial standing.
Proving what I know is difficult through a computer. What is more relevant is trying to prove or disprove it through intelligent debate. No one has offered any rebuttals to what I post. This tells me you(no one in particular) either haven't the knowledge to support your side of an argument, or you're wrong.
The fundamental four(FF) cover everything necessary for the safe handling of firearms. Do explain what additional rules cover that the FF do not? Again as noted previously, if IPSC and IDPA are so safe, why are there no shortage of incidents of negligent discharges?? The answer is that someone failed to follow a rule or rules. Instituting more rules does nothing for those who fail to follow just one of those rules.
I agree that for first time competitors and relatively novice shooters that a match can be intimidating. However, this is no excuse for poor firearms handling or the addition of ignorant redundant rules. Give the new shooters the benefit of the doubt. If they prove they are incapable of adhering to the FF then remove them from the match. Oh wait, I know why this doesn't work, you might hurt someone's feelings... Too bad! Shooting is a big boy activity, if you can't follow the rules you don't play.
I don't compete in IPSC and never have. Its full of ignorant rules, unrealistic scenarios, pointless "divisions",is designed to cater to the 1911 crowd, complete lack of tactics and is expensive. I have shot IDPA(not a sanctioned event) and it was enjoyable. Again, IDPA has too many divisions, has become a "game" not a discipline designed to improve ones performance with a defensive firearm. Like IPSC, IDPA lacks tactics, and often involves ignorant unrealistic rules and/or limitations.
Winning is always nice and yes you're right Bob, we all compete in hopes of winning. However, unlike many who are serious competitors, I do not compete SOLELY to win. If I place, great. If I don't, I could care less. Unlike many, I will not compromise my training and/or tactics to shave time or better my score. I'm only competing against myself. So long as I practice what I preach and do so with any sort of grace I'm happy. Improving my performance is what I'm after, not proving my performance is better than that of anyone else.
Fancy guns and gear mean nothing to me. I run stock(relatively stock) gear based on two criteria. They must be utterly reliable and simple to operate. I'm sure an "open" ISPC gun with optics and all the trimmings could put my scores to shame. That being said, I have no doubt the same gun would choke in adverse conditions and be next to useless should the optic fail. Everything is a compromise, and compromising the reliability and ease of use for a potential gain in performance is unacceptable for a defensive firearm. My guns aren't setup for competing, so I don't expect to compete against those who's guns are.
TDC
Whats a fancy gun? You press the trigger, it goes bang. Your arguement that IPSC and IDPA is not based on real live scenarios is not completely true. Granted some stages are not realistic, but if everything life and death were that predictable we would avoid those situtations. You have not had the experience with IPSC to see those scenario based stages. I think people take offence to your posting because it is not based on your participation in anything but a pistol shooting course and that you own a few guns. Other people may read what you have written and think there is merit to it; when there really isn't. It does nothing to help keep the participation levels up at matches. That is like listening to someone who owns a motorbike tell everyone how all the motorcycle driving sports suck, although they have not and will not likely every compete.
I actually mentioned you to someone this weekend, and I said I felt a little pity for you. You write like you read a lot, but in your writing you exhibit a lot of low self esteem; you try and validate your experience by putting down other shooting sports that you are not even involved with
.You should take the plunge and actually try taking the Black badge course, and then compete in production or standard division. You might actually like it. Then again after some of the IPSC/IDPA crowd have read this, they won't likely be lining up to have you in the course, especially with your attitude. You can't teach those who do not have an open mind.
I finally decided to get into IPSC and just recently shot my first match. To be honest I couldn't care less about weather or not I have to pull the trigger when I'm done! who cares?! It's a game! a sport there can only be so much realism after all no one is shooting back at you so what's the point of pretanding to take cover?? I do agree that it's expensive to start up and that put me off joining for years! but it's still fun and it's a good practice and you don't have to use race guns, I don't - I use my stock 9mm!
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Hey TDC, I wouldn't mind going to the range with ya one of these days, I'd like to pick your brain, I'm sure I could learn alot... I agree with a lot of your technique and fundamentals that you preach around here. For this particular topic I agree, one must maintain the four basic rules of safe firearm handling at all times....
You know, if anyone asks me what equipment to start out with in IPSC with I tell them to just buy a 9mm and shoot in Production Division. Start there and stay there shooting a basic gun for a good while and see how you like it. It's a very competitive division, relatively cheap to get in and certainly not just for those who are starting out. In fact, it is the fastest growing Division in the sport and some of the best shooters in the world shoot only Production guns (1911's need not apply). As well, it's probably no more expensive than playing golf but ten times more fun.
Open Division is for guys who are either hopelessly addicted to adrenaline and hemorrhaging money, or are too old and blind to see their front sights anymore. I'd love to get a Production gun at some point just to mess around with. Perhaps I will if that money tree I planted in the back yard bears fruit this year....
Whats a fancy gun? You press the trigger, it goes bang. Your arguement that IPSC and IDPA is not based on real live scenarios is not completely true. Granted some stages are not realistic, but if everything life and death were that predictable we would avoid those situtations. You have not had the experience with IPSC to see those scenario based stages. I think people take offence to your posting because it is not based on your participation in anything but a pistol shooting course and that you own a few guns. Other people may read what you have written and think there is merit to it; when there really isn't. It does nothing to help keep the participation levels up at matches. That is like listening to someone who owns a motorbike tell everyone how all the motorcycle driving sports suck, although they have not and will not likely every compete.
I actually mentioned you to someone this weekend, and I said I felt a little pity for you. You write like you read a lot, but in your writing you exhibit a lot of low self esteem; you try and validate your experience by putting down other shooting sports that you are not even involved with
You should take the plunge and actually try taking the Black badge course, and then compete in production or standard division. You might actually like it. Then again after some of the IPSC/IDPA crowd have read this, they won't likely be lining up to have you in the course, especially with your attitude. You can't teach those who do not have an open mind.
The bold is the issue. Only some of the stages are reality based(sort of). The extensive rules are ridiculous, the gear used is ridiculous, the walk through's and "air gunning" are ridiculous. The use of the shooters box is ridiculous. The round counts(although enjoyable) are ridiculous. I'm unaware of any low light/no light shooting in IPSC. It's a game, it's not for me.
Jim, if my schedule permits and the weather improves I may just attend a match.
TDC
Broad sweeping attacks? Would you like some examples of such ignorant rules. These are right from IPSC.org
3.1.1
Published Courses of Fire
Registered competitors and/or their Regional Directorates must be provided with the same course of fire information, within the same notice period, in advance of the match. The information may be provided by physical or electronic means, or by reference to a website
(also see Section 2.3).
Advanced written notice of the COF. Very realistic.
3.2.1
A written stage briefing approved by the Range Master must be posted at each course of fire prior to commencement of the match. This briefing will take precedence over any course of fire information published or otherwise communicated to competitors in advance of the match, and it must provide the following minimum information:
• Scoring Method:
• Targets (type & number):
• Minimum number of rounds:
• The handgun ready condition:
• Start position:
• Time starts: audible or visual signal:
• Procedure:
Target types and numbers? Pretty easy to "game" the COF when you know what type of targets and their numbers.
4.1.2
Scoring targets used in all IPSC Handgun matches must be of a single color, as follows:
4.1.2.1. The scoring area of scoring paper targets must be of a typical cardboard color.
4.1.2.2. The entire front of scoring metal targets must be painted a single color, preferably
white.
Why the same colour? Not exactly difficult when you know what colour all the targets are going to be.
5.3.1
The use of camouflage or other similar types of military or police garments is discouraged. The exception are competitors who are law enforcement or military personnel. The Match Director will be the final authority in respect of what garments must not be worn by competitors.
Why?? Who cares what you wear.
5.7.1
In the event that a competitor's firearm malfunctions after the start signal, the competitor may safely attempt to correct the problem and continue the course of fire. During such corrective action, the competitor must keep the muzzle of the firearm pointing safely downrange at all times. The competitor may not use rods, or other tools to correct the
malfunction. Violations will result in a zero score for the stage.
"Down range" is the term for somewhere safe. The backstop unless you intend to shoot there or are comfortable with your bullets landing there is not a safe area. Same goes for the side berms. Last I checked most outdoor ranges have 180' of "safe" shooting in each bay.
8.2.4
A course of fire must never require the competitor to draw a handgun from the holster with
the weak hand.
Not exactly realistic.
10.2.8
If a course of fire stipulates shooting strong or weak hand only, a competitor will not be penalized for using the other hand (i.e. the other arm from the shoulder to the hand) to disengage an external safety, to reload or to safely correct a malfunction.
You wouldn't be using your DOMINANT and NON DOMINANT hand(s) ONLY if you are permitted to use the remaining one.
Match Disqualification – Unsafe Gun Handling
10.5.5
Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor's body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping). A match disqualification is not applicable if sweeping occurs while drawing or re-holstering a gun, provided the competitor's fingers are clearly outside
the trigger guard.
No DQ or penalty for sweeping yourself? I guess the FF don't really apply.
10.5.12.1
The word "handling" does not preclude competitors from entering a Safety Area with ammunition in magazines or speed loading devices on their belt, in their pockets or in their range bag, provided the competitor does not physically remove the loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices from their retaining or storage device while within the Safety Area.
So if IPSC deems loaded magazines that are untouched to be safe in the handling area, why are loaded guns deemed dangerous? If you don't play with it there is a zero chance of an ND.
Production division regulations
17.
Handguns deemed by IPSC to be single-action-only are prohibited. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked. First shot attempted must be double action. Competitors in this Division who,
after the issuance of the start signal and prior to attempting the first shot,#### the hammer on a handgun which has a loaded chamber, will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence. Note that a procedural penalty will not be assessed in respect of courses of fire where the ready condition requires the competitor to prepare the handgun with an empty chamber. In these cases, the competitor may fire the first shot
single action.
I thought production was for production guns. Aren't 1911's or other SA semi autos a production gun??
19.1
Modifications to them, other than minor detailing (the removal of burrs and/or adjustments unavoidably required in order to fit replacement OFM parts or components, and/or identifying marks which add or remove negligible weight to/from magazines), are prohibited. Other
prohibited modifications include those which facilitate faster reloading (e.g. flared, enlarged and/or add-on magwells, etc.) changing the original color and/or finish of a handgun, and/or adding stripes or other embellishments.
What difference does colour or finish make?
19.2
Magazines accessible to a competitor during a COF must not contain more that 15 rounds at the Start Signal.
Although a non issue in Canada, why the limitation? If you can run 17 round magazines its your benefit. Everyone has the ability to run the same gun. Why the limitation only for the start signal? Hardly realistic.
Revolver Standard Division
16.
No limit on cylinder capacity, however, a maximum of 6 rounds to be fired before reloading. Violations will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence.
So no limit for revolvers, but a 15 round starting magazine limit for autos? Why the requirement to fire 6 before reloading?
19.3
Cosmetic enhancements which do not give a competitive advantage (e.g. plating, checkering of frames, custom grips)
So its ok to alter the finish and appearance of your revolver but not your auto??
Production division boundaries for tape on grips.
Tape can only be applied within areas indicated by the dotted lines, which includes the front and rear backstraps. However tape cannot be used to disengage a grip safety, nor can tape be applied to any part of the slide, trigger, trigger guard, magazine or on any lever or button.
Why can't you apply grip tape to the slide or the other listed areas? Everyone else has the option to do the same.
TDC
TDC<... you waste all that energy and you still get the same results,...you will not compete. There are times when people "sweep" themselves when they holster or unholster there pistol. THis is fact; especially with your ubor tactical IWB holster, or even a regular belt holster, the muzzle points at your leg.
Production division guns refer to duty type DA guns. IF you looked at Standard division you would see where the 1911's, 2011's etc. fit.
Revolver shooters compete against revolver shooters. THese are called "divisions", hence the division in the types of firearms. Hence an OPen gun with optics and comp would almost always give an advantage over a revolver with iron sights.
Ya see, you learning already. LIke all SPORTS, there are rules. Normal people follow rules to be active participants in any sport.
If you put this much effort into getting the BB course you would be once step closer to being an active member of a world recognized shooting sport. No one recognizes the shooting sport and rules of TDC.
Production division guns refer to duty type DA guns. IF you looked at Standard division you would see where the 1911's, 2011's etc. fit.
Revolver shooters compete against revolver shooters. THese are called "divisions", hence the division in the types of firearms. Hence an OPen gun with optics and comp would almost always give an advantage over a revolver with iron sights.
Ya see, you learning already. LIke all SPORTS, there are rules. Normal people follow rules to be active participants in any sport.
If you put this much effort into getting the BB course you would be once step closer to being an active member of a world recognized shooting sport. No one recognizes the shooting sport and rules of TDC.
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