looking for first milsurp, need info

ArtyMan said:
Those of us who like our Mosins find that term very suitable! Infact my 1901 Sestroryetsk has been dubbed the "sl*t of the third world" - said with love of course:D. Russian rifle with Finn, German, Austrian, Bulgarian and Hungarian markings!
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ArtyMan,

Thanks for posting a reply that is tongue in cheek. There are too many times on this site when something is written in fun and the flaming trolls storm out in force. It seems that most people lose their civility when they the internet and keyboard separating them from a real person.

Mosins can be amazing rifles, as long as they aren't wartime Russian variations.
 
I had my heart set on my first rifle being a Mosin Nagant, and for the life of me I couldn't decide between a 91/30 and a M44. Then one day a 1942 Longbranch came up, and.. I couldn't resist the urge to own a rifle that a Canadian soldier may have carried in combat!

Mosin is next in line though :D
 
I have shot enfields in the past but do not own one. I love my nagant, look at it this way for a second.

I bought it for 170, got a kit to reload and components to make 300 rounds for about 400bucks. Nothing but good times.

Sure its beat to hell and i have to have the front sight over 1/8th of an inch to shoot on center, but it's fun, cheap and reliable. And shoots surprisingly accurate.

I will have an enfield one day, but for a first rifle the nagant is the way to go.
 
I own 3 Enfields (No.1, No.4 and No.5) and 1 Mosin (1944 91/30).

I reload for every calibre I shoot (minus .22) and find that the 7.62x54R and 303 British are my favorite calibres to do load development with.

I enjoy all my rifles and want to get a M44 and M38 in the future.

My preference is Enfields over Mosins, thats just me though.

So in regards to the OP, it is totally up to your own personal preference. I suggest finding someone who has a Mosin and an Enfield and go shooting one afternoon. After handling and firing them first hand, you can make an educated decision.

Short of that you are just listening to the age old "this rifle vs that rifle" pissing contest.
 
For the !st milsurp , ...and provided we're talking about rifles in VG condition ...my vote is for the No4Mk1
( preferably a Mk1* with a Mklll rearsight ;) ).
Very tough yet user friendly , fast handling , reasonably accurate , easy cleaning /takedown.
...all reasons why the Lee Enfield also made such a good hunting rifle.
Ammo , replacement parts everywhere.

IMPO - I'm much more accurate with the Longbranch than with a Tula 91/30 ...could be the fence post used as a front sight on the Mosin. Difference at the range is , I'll aim at the 8" black circle with the Mosin , whereas I aim at the center of the black circle with the Longbranch :stirthepot2:.
Never the less , the 91/30 is a helluva tough rifle and very much appreciated amongst my collection and as a "fun gun" .
Don't forget to look for ammo at gunshows !

If it's elegence your looking for then it's gotta be a Swede mauser M96 or the shorter M38 . Many of these is what the term "tac driver" refer too ;)
Don't let the mild recoil fool you , 6.5x55 round is a hard hitter , make no mistake about it...
I have no probs finding ammo .
 
John Sukey said:
Now that crap about the noisey maggot having a "rich history" almost made me puke.
You are telling me the Lee-Enfield DOESN'T have a rich history? It has served all over the world in many countries and many wars from 1891 to the present!
Ammo is expensive? Thats why we have reloading presses! unprimed brass is not a problem.

Now if you want a moisen, fine, it's your money. As for a similarity to the 30-06? Just what similarity is that? The 30-06 is a Rimless cartridge and the russian one is rimmed.
The 303 has been putting round holes in square heads for almost a century.
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relax... I dont remember reading anything here saying the Enfield DOESNT have a rich history. Just because somebody says something about a rifle dosnt mean he is saying others dont. ;)

- and in regards to the whole wars since 1891 to the present, well, I do believe the Mosin can say the same ;) and the x54r has been blowing heads OFF for well OVER a century, as I know for a fact that it is still a standard issue caliber today - unlike the .303. Now, Im not saying anything BAD about the .303, just GOOD about the 54r. There is a difference.

In regards to who thinks what is better and why, I refer you to the thread Mosin Nagant vs Lee Enfield. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=420974
Lets not change the topic of the thread into a bashing contenst. For that, there is the above!!! :)
 
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Recce21 said:
ArtyMan,

Thanks for posting a reply that is tongue in cheek. There are too many times on this site when something is written in fun and the flaming trolls storm out in force. It seems that most people lose their civility when they the internet and keyboard separating them from a real person.

Mosins can be amazing rifles, as long as they aren't wartime Russian variations.
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Unfortunatly your very correct about people turining into flaming trolls. " WHAT DO YOU MEAN ###X ISNT AS GOOD AS ###X". Its even worse when it was clearly intended as a joke!

Whats the saying about everybody being a JTF tacitcal sniper mall ninja pro wrestler tacteam swat tough guy.. on the internet! ah well
 
Besides, we all know the truth anyway ;)

MosinPoster.jpg



-THIS IS A JOKE!!!! said with humor-
 
Timberlord said:
For the !st milsurp , ...and provided we're talking about rifles in VG condition ...my vote is for the No4Mk1
( preferably a Mk1* with a Mklll rearsight ;) ).
Very tough yet user friendly , fast handling , reasonably accurate , easy cleaning /takedown.
...all reasons why the Lee Enfield also made such a good hunting rifle.
Ammo , replacement parts everywhere.

IMPO - I'm much more accurate with the Longbranch than with a Tula 91/30 ...could be the fence post used as a front sight on the Mosin. Difference at the range is , I'll aim at the 8" black circle with the Mosin , whereas I aim at the center of the black circle with the Longbranch :stirthepot2:.
Never the less , the 91/30 is a helluva tough rifle and very much appreciated amongst my collection and as a "fun gun" .
Don't forget to look for ammo at gunshows !

If it's elegence your looking for then it's gotta be a Swede mauser M96 or the shorter M38 . Many of these is what the term "tac driver" refer too ;)
Don't let the mild recoil fool you , 6.5x55 round is a hard hitter , make no mistake about it...
I have no probs finding ammo .
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Thanks, very helpful post. I am leaning toward a No4Mk1, my first rifle was an AIA and loved that thing, but I felt I was missing the history. Liked the peep sites too, and it fired .308, my favourite caliber and easy to find too.
(wish I still had it:()
But I have fired a bubbad No4 and really liked the round, it's just ammo that's a real bugger, I have to get into reloading.
Now I like the sounds of the Mauser being a tack driver, what I really want is a milsurp bolt action tac driver with great iron sights, and easy to find ammo. Is that too much to ask?:D
 
My 1st choice: Izzy or RC 98k
My 2nd choice: Finn M39 mosin

Lets face it, we are never going to agree on which model is "the best" (that would be boring).
The ones mentioned so far are all great rifles. I would be more concerned with the rifles condition rather than its make and model. All are proven on the field of battle and all will hit what you aim at.;)

That being said its hard to beat the rifle/ammo combo that is the Israeli 98k. Very accurate and will eat any 7.62nato and .308 you feed it. The only hard part is finding one in pristine condition these days.
 
J996 said:
My 1st choice: Izzy or RC 98k
My 2nd choice: Finn M39 mosin

Lets face it, we are never going to agree on which model is "the best" (that would be boring).
The ones mentioned so far are all great rifles. I would be more concerned with the rifles condition rather than its make and model. All are proven on the field of battle and all will hit what you aim at.;)
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Good call with the RCs, great rifles and usually priced fairly well
 
The only real problem with buying your first milsurp is that they tend to breed. I got a couple, and then suddenly i had twenty of the damn things!

You have to buy more storage, ammo, BLO, wood working tools... it goes on and on.

my recommendation would be to get out while you still can...
 
Get a Lee Endfield but dont get it here, the prices get pretty silly on the EE and you live in NS any way (Nova Scotia once known as the land Lee Endfields go to die) check your local bullitin bords, classifieds small gunshops etc. I picked up a very good++ no5 for 125.00 last year out of the MR Barter. Where abouts are you in NS? There are 2 lee endfields and a 1895 303 in this weeks Bargain Hunter.
 
If you're just getting into military surplus and aren't trying to fill out an existing collection, the best choice is to look for the stuff that is being imported from the surplus market in quantity now. The selection is better for condition and prices will be low and can only go up. This is especially true for historical firearms made and used by major powers, as opposed to export or licenced production models.
Buy two or three, and then when the importer supply drys up, sell your spares and used the money to buy something else on the secondary market such as a Lee Enfield.
For example, the Soviet SKS is one of the best deals going right now. As soon as the importers are sold out, the prices will go up. During the last period when there were none being imported, the price shot up from about $150 to about $400.
Russian Moisin Nagants and SVT40's are a good deal too and will probably appreciate in value when some surplus ammo comes in.
 
Problem is that you can't really rely on ANY box-stock, just-out-of-storage military rifle to provide "tack-driver" accuracy. For one thing, you have no idea how long it was stored, how it was stored or why it went into storage in the first place. That's the bad part.

The good part is that neither the wonderful, historical, elegant, super-snazzy, smooth and slick Number 4..... nor the ugly, brutal, historical, smooth and slick old Smellie (SMLE Mark III*) is especially hard to tune into a decent-shooting rifle.
You can get pretty darned decent accuracy out of the ugly, rough, nasty (but very pretty, IMHO) Noisy Maggot also. And, ballistically, it is a very darned close twin to the .30-'06, just using a .310-.312 bullet.

But there is a fundamental design difference in the woodwork, and wood-to-metal contact/non-contact is pretty important in making ANY of the old critters shoot. The Moisin-Nagant forestock looks beautiful, really gives you a nice, slender, and quite snazzy-looking rifle. But the forestock is thin enough that it is difficult to tune the bedding right and even more difficult to keep your pressure constant at the muzzle end. A friend of mine addressed this problem on a $120 MN 91/30 by routering out the fore-end, dropping in a 1/4" steel rod and Acra-Glasing the thing solid. Sure shoots.
Number 1s and Number 4s we just bed according to factory specs, modded very slightly, and we are getting good accuracy out of all 3.

It is EASIER to turn a Lee-Enfield INTO a tack-driver than it is to do the same with the MN. The Finns seem to have done things to the MN to MAKE it shoot (including give it a decent trigger).

Any of them should turn in half-decent fun and games when you take it out. As to reloading costs, they are not a lot more than buying surplus ammo (when it is available) AND your loads are FRESH. Not only that, but you can tune your load to YOUR RIFLE, which you sure can't do with factory stuff. And there is almost zero difference between reloading costs for the 7.62x54R and the great old .303. You only need one type of primer, one type of powder, one diameter of bullet (and they both shoot nicely with the Hornady 150 .312", seated out so the cannelure shows). You use slightly different amounts of powder, that's all..... and different dies, of course.
And you have FOUR times as much fun!

Which is what it's all about, I thought.

Good luck.
 
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