cross border shopping for bullets,brass etc

Donnie said:
Strange experiences here. I bring ammo across every few months, never a problem. Pay my taxes and I'm on my way. I've never failed to declare it. Is it really different if one is bringing back bullets and cases?

FWIW, Buffalo Gun Center and Gander is where I pick up my ammo.
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There are regular US EXPORT checks at the Buffalo crossings. If you happen to get caught exporting controlled military items (ammo or components) expect all your goods to be seized and you WILL be banned from entry to the US for life, and put on their no-fly list, then send you on your way. BTW this is the very LEAST that will happen.

To them you are a smuggler and a criminal and if they choose you can be treated as such (ie jailed, car and everything seized)
 
Canuck525 said:
The problem is with U.S customs, not Canadian customs.If I understand correctly gun parts.bullets, brass etc need to be accompanied by the proper export permit.otherwise they could confiscate it( atleast that isa how I understand it). I was hoping it was not the case but apparently it is.
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I understand. For the record, I was asked to produce a formal bill of sale from both stores, both of which are export permit holders. Brian from Buffalo Gun Center can explain it better, but basically the permit is issued to the store and that's it. When I bought my Glock there, different story, I actually received export paperwork.

Been across the border dozens of times with ammo and guns, never a problem. The most I was ever asked by the US guys is whether or not that 'stuff' is legal in Canada (referring to the JHP's I had).

Anyway, I don't want to cloud this thread.
 
SandRoad said:
There are regular US EXPORT checks at the Buffalo crossings. If you happen to get caught exporting controlled military items (ammo or components) expect all your goods to be seized and you will be banned from entry to the US for life, and put on their no-fly list. BTW this is the very LEAST that will happen.

To them you are a smuggler and a criminal and if they choose you can be treated as such (ie jailed, car and everything seized)
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Maybe its my good looks, maybe its my badge, I dunno. I've never failed to declare anything to either side. Even a traffic stop in Buffalo where they searched the car yielded over 1000 rounds and the cops didn't flinch.

Ironically, I shop with my colleagues from the FBI in the States and they are the ones who convinced me to buy American.

I think I'll look into this tomorrow for my own good. Thanks for shaking me up :)
 
Donnie said:
I understand. For the record, I was asked to produce a formal bill of sale from both stores, both of which are export permit holders. Brian from Buffalo Gun Center can explain it better, but basically the permit is issued to the store and that's it. When I bought my Glock there, different story, I actually received export paperwork.

Been across the border dozens of times with ammo and guns, never a problem. The most I was ever asked by the US guys is whether or not that 'stuff' is legal in Canada (referring to the JHP's I had).

Anyway, I don't want to cloud this thread.
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The export paperwork for ammo and components is EXACTLY the same as it is for guns. The main difference is you can't take possession of the firearm in the US and the firearm registration on the Canadian side. You actually need a US hunting licence from any state to purchace or possess of ammo in the US.

The export checks are done by DHS and CBP and are set up a few hundred yards before the crossings. Completely separate from the regular US customs. (US Customs generally don't check people on the way out)

For the most part, customs agents don't know all/any of the export rules, even ATF doesn't know the rules because it isn't their jurisdiction. It is under jurisdiction of the State Department. (However Shotguns are under jurisdiction of Department of Commerce) That is why there is so much confusion about exports. And even if you contact the State Department you still have to get the right person for the correct answer......

Export of arms, ammo and components fall under ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations)

As for Canadian customs, they don't care, importing is legal for personal use.
 
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Do what you will but don't try to entice others to break the law, even if it's another country's law.

Do I smell something...?
 
SandRoad said:
The export paperwork for ammo and components is EXACTLY the same as it is for guns. The main difference is you can't take possession of the firearm in the US and the firearm registration on the Canadian side. You actually need a US hunting licence from any state to purchace or possess of ammo in the US.
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I gotta be honest with ya, I've never ever had anything more than a bill of sale for ammo. I will absolutely call both stores and the ATF tomorrow to find out if I've been sneaking by. I actually keep all my receipts and CBSA slips in the car just in case someone 'new' questions me. I've only been checked out by the US guys once, they ask to see my PAL. I further produced my registrations for the guns (matched the ammo) and they sent me on my way. That was Canada Day this year.

Sounds like I may be pushing my luck, but I'll ask around tomorrow.
 
CeeZer said:
Do what you will but don't try to entice others to break the law, even if it's another country's law.

Do I smell something...?
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I will leave it alone. I am not enticing anyone to break the law and as mentioned I'll do my own homework to make sure I'm in compliance.
 
Donnie said:
I gotta be honest with ya, I've never ever had anything more than a bill of sale for ammo. I will absolutely call both stores and the ATF tomorrow to find out if I've been sneaking by. I actually keep all my receipts and CBSA slips in the car just in case someone 'new' questions me. I've only been checked out by the US guys once, they ask to see my PAL. I further produced my registrations for the guns (matched the ammo) and they sent me on my way. That was Canada Day this year.

Sounds like I may be pushing my luck, but I'll ask around tomorrow.
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It is the Dept of State that controls exports. FWIW
 
CanAm said:
It is the Dept of State that controls exports. FWIW
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Yes, no argument there. But I do not have a contact there, I do with the ATF and the DOC. There is also a number on the bottom of my export printout for my Glock, seems like a logical number to call tomorrow.
 
Well here is ACTUAL REAL PROOF. Believe what ever the heck you want but I keep this information printed out in the car every time I bring components and loaded ammo across the border. I have never had any issues. Just follow the rules. Buy a hunting license in the states you travel through and stay within the limits.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/information/residents/us-eu-eng.htm
Regulations for Purchasing Firearms and Ammunition in the U.S.

The regulations generally make it unlawful for non-residents (non-immigrant aliens) to possess and receive firearms and ammunition in the U.S.

Exceptions for purchasing firearms and ammunition include the following:

Non-residents who have the firearm directly exported to Canada by a U.S. licensed firearms dealer;
Non-residents who have:
a) a valid U.S. State-issued hunting licence or permit or an invitation to a U.S. competitive sports-shooting event,

b) proof of residency in the U.S. for at least 90 days, and

c) an alien or admission number issued by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS);

Law enforcement officers in the U.S. on official business.


http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/mms-smm/expl-expl/imp-imp-eng.htm
Explosives that may be imported without an explosives Importation Permit
Explosive Type Quantity
Safety cartridges 5000
Percussion caps (primers) for safety cartridges 5000
Empty primed cartridge cases 5000
Gunpowder (black powder) in canisters of 500 g or less and smokeless powder in canisters of 4000 g or less 8 kg
Model rocket engines 6
Pyrotechnic distress signals and lifesaving devices Any quantity necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft, train, vessel or vehicle in which they are transported, or for the safety of the occupants
 
Well here is ACTUAL REAL PROOF. Believe what ever the heck you want but I keep this information printed out in the car every time I bring components and loaded ammo across the border.
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Except that you don't list the U.S. regulations for EXPORTING firearms,firearms components,ammunition or ammunition components from the USA.
 
MACKLES
We are not talking about just possession but EXPORTING bullets,brass etc from the U.S to Canada. It is U.S law that dictates this not Canada or the RCMP.
 
Okay, I spoke to my FBI counter-parts who were kind enough to provide me with a good contact that I will discuss at length with this afternoon. At the moment, the best 'public' reference they could provide for my benefit of exporting ammunition is as follows:

2. To export firearms other than sporting
shotguns or ammunition for firearms other
than sporting shotguns, the FFL from whom
you purchase the firearm/ammunition must be
registered with the Department of State, Office
of Defense Trade Controls (ODTC). The FFL
must obtain an export license from the ODTC
prior to exportation.

❖ The State Department recommends that
you provide the FFL with a letter from your
embassy on embassy letterhead explaining
why you want to export the firearm/
ammunition. You also should provide an
import authorization issued by the competent
Government office in your country.
 
So I asked the ATF .... have a read at the link I was given.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nonimmigrant-aliens.html
Q: May nonimmigrant aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States?
Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States.

There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:

nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid (unexpired) hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States;
nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the collection, competitive use or other sporting use of firearms;
certain diplomats, if the firearms are for official duties;
officials of foreign governments, if the firearms are for official duties, or distinguished foreign visitors so designated by the U.S. State Department;
foreign law enforcement officers of friendly foreign governments entering the United States on official law enforcement business; and
persons who have received a waiver from the prohibition from the U.S. Attorney General.
Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien cannot purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Department of Homeland Security (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service) and (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 consecutive days immediately prior to the firearms transaction.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(b) and 922(y), 27 CFR 478.124, ATF Rul. 2004-1]
 
You fail to understand the difference between possessing and exporting...

This is not complicated...and sure as #### isn't news.


mackles said:
So I asked the ATF .... have a read at the link I was given.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nonimmigrant-aliens.html
Q: May nonimmigrant aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States?
Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States.

There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:

nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid (unexpired) hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States;
nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the collection, competitive use or other sporting use of firearms;
certain diplomats, if the firearms are for official duties;
officials of foreign governments, if the firearms are for official duties, or distinguished foreign visitors so designated by the U.S. State Department;
foreign law enforcement officers of friendly foreign governments entering the United States on official law enforcement business; and
persons who have received a waiver from the prohibition from the U.S. Attorney General.
Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien cannot purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Department of Homeland Security (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service) and (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 consecutive days immediately prior to the firearms transaction.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(b) and 922(y), 27 CFR 478.124, ATF Rul. 2004-1]
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How about a US citizen living in Canada? Can they bring powder, brass, assembled ammo etc back with them from the US?
 
can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 consecutive days immediately prior to the firearms transaction.
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I do not want to get the water muddied but how would this apply to a snowbird who has spent the winter down South.
 
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