The Snider-Enfield

[BUSHMAN79]

Hello, all! I just wanted to post some basic info on the Snider-Enfield, to help those puzzled Snider owners out there. First off, I have read on numerous websites that the Mk. I was marked as such. The Mk.I was NOT marked! The first Sniders in service were the Mk.I's, which were chambered for the Mk.I cartridge with a thin, rounded rim. These early cartridges were unsuccessful due to fragility and extraction issues, so the Mk.II cartridge was developed. Since this round had a thicker rim, Mk.I Sniders were recalled to have their chambers and extractors altered. These were marked "*" on the top of the shoe. New made actions, incorporating the altered chamber and extractor with no other improvements, were marked "II*" These arms all had flat nosed hammers. Because the early cartridges were of a rather fragile, built-up construction, they would often come apart or split on firing. Escaping gas would get under the breechblock, causing it to fly open. The head of the cartridge would then hit the shooter in the forehead! To rectify this problem, the II** was developed. The breechblock was made larger and more rounded on the underside, to help prevent escaping gas from getting under it. The hammer was made with a hollow nose, to help hold the block shut if a cartridge failed. The extractor was also modified to strengthen it, and the nipple was shortened. By 1869, the supplies of P1853 muskets were pretty much exhausted. Sniders were then manufactured from scratch, rather than being converted. Most of these used the Mk.III action, with a positive lock operated by a thumb catch. The hammer form reverted to a solid nose for some reason. Most had steel barrels. A few early ones built in 1869 had steel barrels, but Mk.II** actions. Also, I believe there were a few Mk. III's with iron barrels. Steel barrels are marked as such on the left side, just ahead of the breech. Not many 3-band muskets were made as Mk.III's, as the two band short rifle was by then the preferred arm. All marks of Snider saw service in Canada, but the earliest Mk.I's are almost extinct. Over 60,000 Snider-Enfield weapons saw service in Canada, and the cavalry carbine was the first official longarm of the NWMP. Mk.II** 3-band muskets are probably the most common, followed by the cut down cadet model, and Mk.III short rifles. Most cadet carbines seem to have been converted from II* muskets, with the II** being less common, and I've never seen a Mk.III cadet. Sniders were held in stores until after WW1, most only being released in the 1920's.

 

[BUSHMAN79]

Selecting a Snider to Shoot

So you want to buy a Snider-Enfield to shoot, but which one? "Aha", you say, "Nepalese Sniders are available cheaply! I'll get one of those!" Think about it some more, before you buy one of those. Most (all?) of the Nepalese Sniders were made in Nepal, and weren't necessarily of the best quality to begin with. 120+ years of storage in that musty armoury, full of dust and termites, certainly didn't improve them, either! Also, they aren't really that cheap. Here in Canada, we have more GOOD Sniders available than probably anywhere in the world, and you can usually buy one at a gun show for about what you'd pay for a Nepalese Snider by mail order. The best shooters are probably the II* or II** short rifles. Second choice would be the II* or II** musket. Always check the breech block for excessive play. If there is a large gap between the rear of the block and the breech plug, look for another gun. Check the bore carefully, and if buying through the mail, ask for a photo taken through the bore. Earlier guns often have a ring of pitting a few inches down from the muzzle, most likely from the tompions issued with the P1853. This ring of pits can be detrimental to accuracy! Often, the bore can be lightly lapped at the pitted section, but sometimes the pitting is so bad nothing will help. Hang those ones on the wall. Mk.III Sniders are fun to use, and make a nice "KLOK" when you close them. Unfortunately, they weren't really a good design, and they are often worn out. The Snider breechblock must have a SLIGHT amount of play fore and aft to ensure reliable functioning. The block, therefore, moves rearward slightly upon firing. On the II* and II**, the spring loaded pin in the breech plug holds the block in line on firing. Not so on the Mk.III. The positive lock doesn't hold the block in line, due to play in the mechanism. All the strain is transferred to the hinge pin and extractor tube, and the block becomes loose and floppy on the hinge. It doesn't make the gun unsafe, but it IS annoying and doesn't inspire confidence in the arm! Often overlooked as shooters are the cadet carbines. With a little work, these are super shooters! Check them over very carefully, though. They were never intended to fire live ammo, and many appear to have been cobbled together from spare parts. I had one on which the rear sight leaned to one side. It turned out that the barrel wasn't seated properly, and there was actually a gap in the chamber filled with rusty gunk. The bead sight, or double headed nail, or whatever that thing is, is pretty useless. Have a smith remove it, and solder on a little block with a Mauser barleycorn front sight dovetailed in. Then you have windage adjustment! There is usually a raised lip inside the bore, from when the hole was drilled for the bead. The lip must be removed, and the hole should be filled with bore butter before shooting. Otherwise, it's very hard to clean! Cavalry carbines are really nice shooters, and have the faster 1:48 twist. Sadly, their cost pretty much keeps them out of the average shooter's hands. Same with the artillery carbine, which is very rare in Canada. The short rifle is probably the easiest to get shooting accurately, and has nice balance. It is also short enough for hunting. Next time, I'll cover loading and shooting the .577 Snider cartridge.

 

[wr.sainsbury]

snider info

thanks bushman-really useful info. i have a commercial snider which i thought was an engineers rifle due to the barrel lgth and being 2-band. not so after info from another cdn gun nut. question to you is -what do you think i have? it has lock date 1864 ,no model # anywhere,29" barrel(to breech face),appears to be a steel barrel-no marks to this effect. mk 111 breech block & release, hollow hammer face and following stamps. S with a fletched arrow thru, crown over AS on both barrel & breech block.and what appear to be birmingham proofs on the barrel. there is some indication of remains of a bayonet lug on the right side of barrel 1 1/2 inches back from the muzzle. not much else to go on-still has usual enfield cartouch on right side of butt. any thoughts or info greatly appreciated. regards

 

[BUSHMAN79]

thanks bushman-really useful info. i have a commercial snider which i thought was an engineers rifle due to the barrel lgth and being 2-band. not so after info from another cdn gun nut. question to you is -what do you think i have? it has lock date 1864 ,no model # anywhere,29" barrel(to breech face),appears to be a steel barrel-no marks to this effect. mk 111 breech block & release, hollow hammer face and following stamps. S with a fletched arrow thru, crown over AS on both barrel & breech block.and what appear to be birmingham proofs on the barrel. there is some indication of remains of a bayonet lug on the right side of barrel 1 1/2 inches back from the muzzle. not much else to go on-still has usual enfield cartouch on right side of butt. any thoughts or info greatly appreciated. regards

I think I remember seeing that one, a few weeks ago? Certainly not an Engineer's rifle, if it's the one I'm thinking of. An Engineer's rifle would be quite a find, they have the Lancaster oval bore rifling. Almost non-existent in Canada, too. The S with the arrow through it is the Snider Patent logo. Some had "Snider Patent" or "Snider's Patent" in place of the arrow. A steel barrel should be marked as such, unless it was an oddball contract one. No WD and Broad Arrow stamps?? The Mk.III breech is certainly not original, or maybe the lock has been changed. If you remove the barrel, the last two digits of the year of manufacture should be stamped on the bottom, near the breech. Also, the year will be stamped in nearly the same place in the wood. Ideally, both should match. The lock date is just that, the year the lock was made. They are often 1-3 years ahead of the barrel date. Could you PM me some pics of that Snider?

 

[Incurable Collectoer]

An S with an arrow through it usually denotes an action that was made by trade and was not used by the army, however having said that I did see a MKII** that had WD markings but also the commercial made action with the S and arrow markings so there is always exeptions.

 

[BUSHMAN79]

An S with an arrow through it usually denotes an action that was made by trade and was not used by the army, however having said that I did see a MKII** that had WD markings but also the commercial made action with the S and arrow markings so there is always exeptions.

Many Government Sniders had that mark, as they used actions supplied by the trade for the conversions. It is less common on Mk.III arms, though.

 

[wr.sainsbury]

snider info

greetings again- thanks for additional feedback. have found the following after dis-ass'y. bottom of barrel stamped "EZRA MILLWALL" this overstamped with TM. G.HO on bottom of breech band then T.T , S, & w. 25 on left side of barrel between proof marks. 701 stamped on bottom of breech band relief in stock. the only broad arrow is on the front band. its over WD over 83. there are other sporadic single letters in various places but i don't think they are significant. will have my wife try to send you some photos later this evening if you want to send me your e-mail address. thanks again and yes it was the one i offered for sale afew weeks ago. took it off when it turned not to be what i thought it was. regards

 

[BUSHMAN79]

greetings again- thanks for additional feedback. have found the following after dis-ass'y. bottom of barrel stamped "EZRA MILLWALL" this overstamped with TM. G.HO on bottom of breech band then T.T , S, & w. 25 on left side of barrel between proof marks. 701 stamped on bottom of breech band relief in stock. the only broad arrow is on the front band. its over WD over 83. there are other sporadic single letters in various places but i don't think they are significant. will have my wife try to send you some photos later this evening if you want to send me your e-mail address. thanks again and yes it was the one i offered for sale afew weeks ago. took it off when it turned not to be what i thought it was. regards

Ezra Millwall was likely the contract barrel maker. I will have to do some more research on the rest of the markings.

 

[BUSHMAN79]

Shooting the Snider-Enfield

Well, now you have your Snider, and you're itching to shoot it, right? You may have read post by various shooter on this, and other forums. I have read these, to, and I must say, many of them could be very discouraging to the beginning Snider shooter. I have just recently read a post stating, matter of factly, that the Snider is only capable of "minute-of-target" accuracy at 100 yards. Other posters have declared NDFS .577 turned brass useless, saying it cracks after two firings. You can't believe everything you read on the internet! First off, Sniders are capable of fine accuracy. The original Snider conversions were found to be one third more accurate than the muzzle loading P53, and there is no reason why this can't be so today. Before I get into actually building ammunition, we will briefly discuss the rifling in various Snider-Enfield barrels. The most common version, the 3-band musket, uses a very slow 1:72 twist, three groove rifling. The 2-band short rifle, artillery carbine, and the cavalry carbine use a faster 1:48 twist with five grooves. The Canadian cadet carbine and British Yeomanry carbine use the 1:72 twist, as they were conversions of 3-band muskets. The Royal Engineer's rifle used Lancaster oval bore rifling, and need not be discussed further. As only 29 saw service in Canada, with the British Army, they will probably not be showing up at your local rifle range! All models used progressive depth rifling, where the grooves are deeper at the breech than at the muzzle. Developing a load that will shoot well in all of the above weapons could be an exercise in frustration, which partially explains why the Boxer .577 cartridge progressed through NINE marks in just a few years! Do not despair! It can be done! Studying the original military loads is always a good start, but it is not practical for us to duplicate the complicated bullets used in those loads, with both hollow bases and a hollow nose. We have, basically, three options in Snider projectiles today. First, a roundball. These often shoot great in 3-band muskets and cadet carbines, but not so good in short rifles and carbines. Second option is a Minié bullet from Lee, Lyman, or RCBS. These can be made to shoot well in all rifles. Third option is a solid bullet from a custom mould. These are made oversize, usually .590, and seem to shoot well in most Sniders. For propellant, I have tried FFF to FG, as well as pyrodex. Forget smokeless, unless you want "minute-of-target" accuracy. After much trial and error, I settled on 72 grains of Goex FG, with either a Lee Minié or a Rapine Trashcan Minié wadcutter. I am still using the original NDFS brass that I bought in 1998, and have totally lost count of how many firings they have endured. 20+ apiece, for sure, and only two small cracks in necks. Use standard primers, and always WEIGH your charge! In the long musket barrel, a two grain difference in charge shows on the target! I have tried using a drop tube to charge the cases, and have found it to be a waste of time in the .577. Simply pour the charge into the cases, and pay close attention to the height of the powder charge in each case. The internal volume of the turned brass can vary greatly! Once your cases are charged, you can set aside any that seem to vary too much for your liking. Use them for short range. Add a pinch of Cream of Wheat over the powder, you want enough so that the powder is compressed slightly when the bullet is seated. I experiment with various Lee dippers, until I get the right amount. Now you can seat your bullet, with the hollow base filled with soft lube, and the lube grooves filled with 50/50 beeswax and Crisco, and have fun. If your bullets are cast of the right alloy, you will have a great time! If not, . Forget the pure lead, or 1:20 alloy. Both are too soft, and the thin skirt on a Minié bullet will distort, or even split, when it exits the muzzle. Bullets cast of wheelweight metal are hard and tough enough to resist splitting, while still being soft enough to expand into the rifling. The Rapine Trashcan is a particularly good performer in the 3-band musket. Loaded as described above, they will hit a pop bottle every time at 100 yards, and will hit a dinner plate easily at 200. Only drawback, you must use 400 yards of elevation at 200 due to the rainbow trajectory! The Lee Minié will shoot to the sights, but is not as accurate. I believe accuracy could be improved by using a custom base plug in the mould, to make a deeper hollow base. As is, they will hit a two litre milk carton every time at 100 yards. That's good enough for me. I quit using round balls early on, as I found they would throw fliers a bit too often. I load .590 solids, cast from softer alloy, for hunting, but I don't shoot them extensively. When the accuracy of my pet Snider suddenly went sour after shooting many of the solid bullets, I was stumped. I found out why, after reaching into the chamber with my little finger. I pulled out a solid ring of lead, that had been shaving off each bullet as it entered the rifling! If left unchecked, such a situation could easily become dangerous. Using such bullets could also put more strain on the ancient wrought iron barrels, as the bullet must squeeze down quite a bit as it passes through the bore. Remember the progressive depth rifling? Hence, my decision to limit the solid bullets to occasional use and hunting only. I hope that my experiences prove helpful to others, and help keep the old Sniders in action. Shoot safely, and have fun!

 

[outdoors]

Nice write up. I have two MK III two band rifles (how did that happen?), a custom solid base .590 mould, Jamison brass, and FFG. My brass has pretty significant volume and 70 grains seems to dissapear inside! Neither of my rifles are worn and both actions function and lock up nicely. I have heard of people mixing cream of wheat (COW) and FFG in equal amounts and using that as filler between the main powder charge and the bullet but have not tried it myself. Others use wool, toilet paper, etc for filler.

I like the Snider action for its uniqueness and as I've posted elsewhere, I think a Snider rebarreled to .50-70 would be a great thumper. The .50-70 also has a very good reputation for being easy to load. That has not been said very many times about the .577 cartridge.

 

[BUSHMAN79]

Nice write up. I have two MK III two band rifles (how did that happen?), a custom solid base .590 mould, Jamison brass, and FFG. My brass has pretty significant volume and 70 grains seems to dissapear inside! Neither of my rifles are worn and both actions function and lock up nicely. I have heard of people mixing cream of wheat (COW) and FFG in equal amounts and using that as filler between the main powder charge and the bullet but have not tried it myself. Others use wool, toilet paper, etc for filler.

I like the Snider action for its uniqueness and as I've posted elsewhere, I think a Snider rebarreled to .50-70 would be a great thumper. The .50-70 also has a very good reputation for being easy to load. That has not been said very many times about the .577 cartridge.

With the solid bullet, substitute a wad of 50/50 beeswax-Crisco lube, with a wad cut from a milk carton on each side. You'll have to experiment to find the proper thickness, but it will really help to keep the bore clean. I've never used Jameson brass. What is it, turned or drawn? Is it pricey?

 

[outdoors]

Jamison brass

The brass is drawn and I picked up some from a group buy on the Snider - British Military forum. Some people reported issues with it but I haven't had any concerns as yet other than the huge volume.

I have read where people smear cream (Udderly smooth!) on the bullet just prior to loading a cartridge in the barrel to shoot and they report improved accuracy and decreased fouling. I've never tried it because it would never have been practical in real military life and therefore doesn't interest me. To each thier own however. Others have reported a cookie of SPG luge between two cardboard wads to decrease fouling. Similar to your idea.

The 70 to 80 grain charge is really quite small in comparison to the bore and therefore a properly fitting bullet should shoot reasonably. I believe that the lack of a proper throat is the main culprit, along with under sized bullets and poor sights. Several armies carried them into harms way and they also made appearances at Bisley, etc so the answer is there somewhere.

 

[BUSHMAN79]

The brass is drawn and I picked up some from a group buy on the Snider - British Military forum. Some people reported issues with it but I haven't had any concerns as yet other than the huge volume.

I have read where people smear cream (Udderly smooth!) on the bullet just prior to loading a cartridge in the barrel to shoot and they report improved accuracy and decreased fouling. I've never tried it because it would never have been practical in real military life and therefore doesn't interest me. To each thier own however. Others have reported a cookie of SPG luge between two cardboard wads to decrease fouling. Similar to your idea.

The 70 to 80 grain charge is really quite small in comparison to the bore and therefore a properly fitting bullet should shoot reasonably. I believe that the lack of a proper throat is the main culprit, along with under sized bullets and poor sights. Several armies carried them into harms way and they also made appearances at Bisley, etc so the answer is there somewhere.

I may have to buy some of that Jameson brass. My supply of NDFS brass is dwindling! Every BP shoot, some butter fingered soul manages to drop a case or two on the hard concrete, plus I've given several to kids, etc. over the years. I think I have about 42 left. The Rapine trashcans that I shoot are a tight slip fit at the muzzle, so they have an easy passage through the non-existent throat. Fouling has never been a major issue in the Sniders I shoot, if you use enough of the proper lube the fouling stays soft. Simply degreasing the bore, then swabbing lightly with olive oil before shooting, helps more than any "moosemilk" or some such witch's brew. The key is to avoid any petroleum products in your lube. I tried to save money on lube by melting toilet gaskets once. Never again! Seems some are now made of synthetic beeswax, which made the fouling hard and sticky. Ugh! I now buy the pure beeswax from a a crafty, girly type store. I have tried several other bullets in the Snider, including the Lee "improved minié", which was a total waste of time. I believe it might work, if you made a longer base plug. The weight has to be distributed just right to get any semblance of accuracy with the slow twists. So far, the Rapine bullets have been the most consistently accurate in all of my Sniders, but the flat nose results in a terribly looping trajectory. I have killed raccoons out to 200+ yards with them, but they nearly always require a sighting shot.

 

[BUSHMAN79]

Interesting Link, Snider in Canadian Service

http://books.google.ca/books?id=wLw...e&lr=&cd=184#v=onepage&q=snider rifle&f=false