Precision shooting with a factory rifle

So in F/F, if I used a front rest instead of my bipod, does that also get calculated into the total weight(which I think is 8.25kg?) If I could use a front rest/bag that would be better for me seeing as how I shot my best score with one.
 
I think Ian what PMT meant was based on commenting on a previous post about limiting bullet weight as a rule because certain manufaturers don't have the twist to spin the bigger ones. If you wanna shoot bigger bullets used the right tools that's all.

Ian I had a question ,,,, as Jr. has just gotten his first rifle (older jr.) to shoot with us he's planning on factory class. How does rule 2b apply to a gun that comes factory with a trigger ALOT lighter than whats listed ?
2.5 - 6 oz I believe .

Mike.
 
Budweiser360 said:
So in F/F, if I used a front rest instead of my bipod, does that also get calculated into the total weight(which I think is 8.25kg?
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(not directly on-topic for this thread, so 'll be brief. The weight limit includes everything attached to the rifle, e.g. bipod, but does not include the things the rifle rests on (shooting mat, front rest, rear bag etc))

redman said:
SUCKS.
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redman, fullbore (TR and F-Class) is deliberate slow fire, so there is no need to be feeding from a magazine of five rounds. After you fire a shot, the next thing you do is wait about 10-15 seconds for the target to be lowered and the shot marked. Once the target is raised and you see where your shot it, it is now your partner's turn to fire. During this time you can plot the exact location of your shot on a plot card, keep an eye on the wind flags and mirage, and in general figure out what if anything you are going to do in order to get a bull on your next shot.

Personally, I think the "for safety's sake, we won't want people loading up their magazines" is an overreaction and a false sense of safety. So while I'll certainly agree with you over a beer that it really isn't doing anything to improve safety, it is also true that the rule is not inhibiting the shooting of the match, even if just on general principles it seems unnecessarily heavy-handed.
 
rnbra-shooter said:
redman, fullbore (TR and F-Class) is deliberate slow fire, so there is no need to be feeding from a magazine of five rounds. After you fire a shot, the next thing you do is wait about 10-15 seconds for the target to be lowered and the shot marked. Once the target is raised and you see where your shot it, it is now your partner's turn to fire. During this time you can plot the exact location of your shot on a plot card, keep an eye on the wind flags and mirage, and in general figure out what if anything you are going to do in order to get a bull on your next shot.

Personally, I think the "for safety's sake, we won't want people loading up their magazines" is an overreaction and a false sense of safety. So while I'll certainly agree with you over a beer that it really isn't doing anything to improve safety, it is also true that the rule is not inhibiting the shooting of the match, even if just on general principles it seems unnecessarily heavy-handed.
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The safety's sake thing for a bolt-action is utterly silly, agreed.

However, I always found it a nuisance to be fumbling around with single loading when I've found a good shooting position. This is especially true since I use a straight-pull bolt, so I can move really little if I want to.
 
One of the things that helps is to figure out a simple and efficient layout for your gear on the firing point. Ideally you can do everything without moving your body or either elbow - look through rifle scope, look through spotting scope, take empty from rifle and put it in ammo box, take new round from ammo box and put it in loading tray, plot your shot and windage graph, keep your partner's score, etc. To watch an experienced shooter do this is to watch economy in motion.
 
A bit off topic, but this is why I can't understand why south paw shooters think they are so agreived. Using your non-dominant hand to cycle the bolt and keep a steady grip and position is a huge advantage. As a right handed shooter I would love a left-handed action for precision shooting. (anyone here ever use an old FNC1?... not precision, but left hand operated...awesome)

Anyway, Magazines are also contrary to ultimate precison, becuase you genereally need more neck tension to keep the bullets straight while they fed. This isn't always a good thing.

As to the bipod/rest debate, FTR (formerly FF and FR) only allows a bipod. A front rest is not allowed. F-SP you can use whatever you want.

As to trigger weights, there is a minimum rule: 1.1 lbs. I seriously doubt there are many factory triggers that can be tuned below that anyway, and those guns that have triggers that can are not allowed (Savage F-Class)


Lastly.....

The rules that have been drafted are a starting point. They will almost certainly evolve. If we get people out shooting in the class, I will ENTHUSIASTICALLY welcome their feedback and we can make the changes through the appropriate mechanisms. I would like that feedback to come from those that participate. It would be my hope that this will be adopted across Canada, and that we accept a single standard as we have for FTR and F-Open.

Daniel is also right in that we can create great classes, but if we have no participation it is wasting the organizer's time. Such was the case with F-Tactical. There was a bunch of high-fiving about this idea and yet I had not a single entry in its match debut. Someone else can carry that torch.
 
As I have said before - LOVE THIS CLASS!!!!! Great job Ian for getting it off the ground.

I love the weight limit. A bit low for me but it sure solves alot of debates about gear.

As to figure out weight, this was explained to me - whatever leaves the ground when you pick up your rifle.

With respect to all factory rifles shooting the same, I disagree. As much as I love Savages, I would get a Tikka in a heart beat as I have seen quite a few do some amazing shooting which can rival some custom rigs.

Now here is something for Ian to mull over - Factory everything but what if the markings on the barrel are slightly out of alignment :)

TrxR, don't just look at the weight of the rifle but also the base, rings, and scope that you want to use. 12lbs is a very tight limit and a lot of 10ish lbs factory rifles may net HEAVIER on the scale.

Jerry
 
An LRPV is a single shot purpose built precision rifle, therefore it would be classified in FTR (if in 223) or F-Open.

Besides, the rifle alone weighs 11 pounds, and with a scope, I don't think you'd make weight

The 12 pounds is to prevent the majority of the quasi, or full-on "factory" precision rifles such as SSG 3000, PGW etc. from competing in a SPORTER class.
 
rnbra-shooter said:
One of the things that helps is to figure out a simple and efficient layout for your gear on the firing point. Ideally you can do everything without moving your body or either elbow - look through rifle scope, look through spotting scope, take empty from rifle and put it in ammo box, take new round from ammo box and put it in loading tray, plot your shot and windage graph, keep your partner's score, etc. To watch an experienced shooter do this is to watch economy in motion.
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Or why not simplify all this by allowing the shooter to use a magazine lol. I think it would make sense since this factory class will no doubt attract mostly novice shooters.

Obtunded said:
Anyway, Magazines are also contrary to ultimate precison, becuase you genereally need more neck tension to keep the bullets straight while they fed. This isn't always a good thing.
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They may be contrary to ultimate precision but, again, I feel this will attract mostly novices, so it would be nice to offer them freedom of choice consider what little benefit the neck tension would provide vs. maintaining an optimal shooting position. In the end, I think the goal here should be to put some emphasis on the shooting, not just the reloading, since the latter is optional as well.
 
Redman, I know you only just got your first precision rifle, come on out and try F-Class!!

Not to dump on you or anyone else, but forums like this and the endless petty debates about what theoretically attracts/repels participation is moot. We have to start somewhere and we did. If I have a line-up of people that refuse to cross the threshold because they can't load a magazine, well, we'll have to look at that. However, once they get involved in shooting - instead of anonymous internet debating - then perhaps they will learn why this rule exists, and can they can get involved in making things happen instead of beating them up in forums like this.
 
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