Learning to shoot Pistols

Z06corvette said:
Slavex is dead on. Training will help you to become a better shooter, take an IPSC Black Badge course or something like that, the investment will be well worth it.
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You can get pretty good instruction which will teach you the basics, but if you really want to go beyond that, best to get a coach.

For the most part I have found that instructors teach you what they know and are good for the basics. But beyond that, it is a coach that develops your skills. Just because someone can shoot really well, doesn't mean they are good at coaching others. (You find this a lot at ranges with many people trying to be helpful.)

Here is one of the best references around: http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_Un_Pistol_Train_Guide.pdf

Calibre? Buy what you want, but if you are at all serious about becoming a good shot, you will eventually get a 22.
 
Thanks everyone for all your comments. Just finished my Restricted course. I'm going to be doing a basic pistol course in June through a local club. I decided I'm going with a 9mm. I don't want to get bored with 22. I heard .22 can get boring fast. A little kick isn't a bad thing. I'd rather learn to train with some recoil than the little you get with .22

Thanks again all.

:ar15:
 
45a14 said:
Thanks everyone for all your comments. Just finished my Restricted course. I'm going to be doing a basic pistol course in June through a local club. I decided I'm going with a 9mm. I don't want to get bored with 22. I heard .22 can get boring fast. A little kick isn't a bad thing. I'd rather learn to train with some recoil than the little you get with .22

Thanks again all.

:ar15:
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One thing you will find is that the recoil you speak of will hide flaws in your technique. Even dry firing doesn't always expose/fix things like flinching, poor grip or hand position, incorrect alignment of hand/arm/gun, etc...

Here are some quotes from my and others previous postings.

Flinching has very little to do with recoil. I have seen some big guys flinch so much they miss the entire target and target stand at 5 to 7 metres.

Flinching is a subconscious reaction, and EVERYONE develops a flinch at some point. There is also a huge range in the severity of a flinch. An example, if you are bullseye shooting, a blinking type flinch can open up your groups by a couple inchs or more at 10m, yet it is something you wouldn't even realize you are doing.

Fixing a flinch

1) Dry firing, (no ammo in gun just practice as if you are firing)

2) Have someone else load a mag for you with a dummy round or two so you will never know if it is going to go off or not. Will become VERY obvious if you are flinching or not.

To fix a flinch (or prevent one), think about it in terms of LETTING the gun fire, not MAKING the gun fire. It is a subtle, but very significant psychological difference.
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A few other interesting threads

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364080

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413343

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328550
 
If you're serious about getting good at shooting your eventual 9mm then getting a companion .22 is actually a pretty good idea. The 9 can teach a lot of people a really good flinch that is hard to get rid of. But shooting some .22 you can really concentrate on a steady hold with a proper trigger pull and follow through. Shoot a couple of magazines of .22 to settle into the groove and immediately transition to the 9mm and you'll find your 9 groups are looking pretty good all of a sudden.... at least for a while and then the flinch sneaks back.

Also if there are any .22 class matches in your club or other local clubs shooting the small bores in these can up the fun anty for them.

An excellent description of the two handed thumbs forward semi auto pistol grip. This write up ties in well with the next link.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/

Todd Jarret in a trailer for a video on pistol gripping and shooting. Lots of good hints.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

Revolver handling. Five great vids from the master, Jerry Miculek.
http://www.myoutdoortv.com/pdk/web/smith.html?feedPID=00zG15zm84msK0GbWemanhJ0KNWQYqM4l

These may not replace the services of a good coach but they'll help you started in a decent manner.
 
45a14 said:
Thanks everyone for all your comments. Just finished my Restricted course. I'm going to be doing a basic pistol course in June through a local club. I decided I'm going with a 9mm. I don't want to get bored with 22. I heard .22 can get boring fast. A little kick isn't a bad thing. I'd rather learn to train with some recoil than the little you get with .22
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:bangHead:
 
Interesting.

okay. Let's say I want to get a .22, what pistols do you suggest?
 
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45a14 said:
I don't want to get bored with 22. I heard .22 can get boring fast.

:ar15:
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If you are serious about learning to shoot and shoot well..then shooting a pellet gun won't be boring. Cadets shoot them almost exclusively and do so for years.

Standing still shooting at paper will get boring no matter what caliber you use if the only reason you are shooting is to make lots of noise.

I own a .22 revolver, .22 pistol and a .22 sub caliber kit for my ar...
They are as much fun as a 9mm and a much better tool to learn how to shoot correctly.
If you have a proper grip, excellent trigger control, proper sight picture and good follow through..recoil won't be an issue.
It is better to learn the basics without dealing with the recoil. As some have mentioned..you might master a great flinch trying to.
 
Wendell said:
.22LR

If you want a centerfire pistol, buy it, but buy it along with a .22LR conversion kit.
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second that...9mm with .22 conv.

i started with 9mm was my first pistol. .22 is just cheaper to go out and have a blast all day for $20.
i just might do this again as i sold my .22s ...conversion kit is cool
 
I think I'd rather buy a conversion kit. That way I can get the best of both worlds. 22lr & 9mm.

Does glock 17 have conversion kits for 22LR? How hard to come by are they?
 
I went a different route. Considered a conversion kit but ended with a Ruger MkIII Hunter which I love. I would just rather shoot with a gun designed for the caliber involved. (but don't get me wrong, I think many conv. kits are quality kits and will last a long time)
.22lr's are great and I think everyone should have at least one...
 
45a14 said:
I think I'd rather buy a conversion kit. That way I can get the best of both worlds. 22lr & 9mm.

Does glock 17 have conversion kits for 22LR? How hard to come by are they?
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There are many different manufacturers of conversion kits for the Glock 17, including Advantage Arms, Jonathan Arthur Ciener, and Tactical Solutions. The brand most seen in Canada is the Advantage Arms product. It is available in Canada from Jo-Brook Firearms and Police Ordnance.

http://www.advantagearms.com/
http://www.22lrconversions.com/
http://www.tacticalsol.com/

http://www.jobrookfirearms.com/
http://policeordnance.com/

Advantage Arms GLOCK .22LR Law Enforcement model
LE17_22RightSide.jpg
 
Well, I'm against the idea of .22 conversions. Why? Yes, they do allow you to practice with .22 using the same gun you'll shoot center fire with. However even the quickest switch over is going to take near a minute and in many cases longer. That kills any sense of continuity you'll have compared to just fluidly laying down one gun and magazine and picking up the other and loading and shooting. Not to mention that for my part I found that one or two magazines of .22, then a magazine of 9mm, then back to one or two of .22, then a mag of 9mm, etc worked the best for me. With that in mind the frequent top end change overs would get really old really fast. So for me the choice was clearly two complete guns. And when you consider that there's many really nice .22 guns that cost no more than a conversion kit the choice is not one for saving money but rather it's one of convienience and personal choice.

Which one to get if you decide to go with a separate .22? To make it a more effective practice companion to your center fire it should be close in grip shape and angle. So unless you get an old P08 Luger this lets out the Ruger .22's and early target shooting Hi Standards other than the Ruger 22/45. .22's with a grip similar to most of the regular center fire guns in addition to the 22/45 are the Browning Buckmark, S&W 22A, S&W 422 , S&W 41, Berreta 87, Tanfoglio Force22, Sig 226 in .22 and others of similar style and grip angle.

By the way, not everyone gets bored with .22. We've got some matches around my area that .22 is elligable to compete with and when shooting with a timer behind your head .22 isn't such a bad option and suddenly becomes fun in its own right. But I'll admit that for purely punching paper it's a learning tool instead of a fun thing for many.
 
Wendell said:
There are many different manufacturers of conversion kits for the Glock 17, including Advantage Arms, Jonathan Arthur Ciener, and Tactical Solutions. The brand most seen in Canada is the Advantage Arms product. It is available in Canada from Jo-Brook Firearms and Police Ordnance.

http://www.advantagearms.com/
http://www.22lrconversions.com/
http://www.tacticalsol.com/

http://www.jobrookfirearms.com/
http://policeordnance.com/

Advantage Arms GLOCK .22LR Law Enforcement model
LE17_22RightSide.jpg
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Awesome stuff! Thanks for posting this!
 
BCRider said:
Well, I'm against the idea of .22 conversions. Why? Yes, they do allow you to practice with .22 using the same gun you'll shoot center fire with. However even the quickest switch over is going to take near a minute and in many cases longer. That kills any sense of continuity you'll have compared to just fluidly laying down one gun and magazine and picking up the other and loading and shooting. Not to mention that for my part I found that one or two magazines of .22, then a magazine of 9mm, then back to one or two of .22, then a mag of 9mm, etc worked the best for me. With that in mind the frequent top end change overs would get really old really fast. So for me the choice was clearly two complete guns. And when you consider that there's many really nice .22 guns that cost no more than a conversion kit the choice is not one for saving money but rather it's one of convienience and personal choice.

Which one to get if you decide to go with a separate .22? To make it a more effective practice companion to your center fire it should be close in grip shape and angle. So unless you get an old P08 Luger this lets out the Ruger .22's and early target shooting Hi Standards other than the Ruger 22/45. .22's with a grip similar to most of the regular center fire guns in addition to the 22/45 are the Browning Buckmark, S&W 22A, S&W 422 , S&W 41, Berreta 87, Tanfoglio Force22, Sig 226 in .22 and others of similar style and grip angle.

By the way, not everyone gets bored with .22. We've got some matches around my area that .22 is elligable to compete with and when shooting with a timer behind your head .22 isn't such a bad option and suddenly becomes fun in its own right. But I'll admit that for purely punching paper it's a learning tool instead of a fun thing for many.
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Well, my thoughts were what you touched on a bit, but I want my 22 to be as close as my 9mm as possible. Because I am training to be more proficent with bigger bores. I don't really care about plinking with a 22. I'm more interested in becoming a better shooter by starting with a 22 and reverting back to my 22 if I do pick up bad shooting habits. So I'd rather go with a converstion kit than a seperate gun.

If I decide I want to plink with a .22 I'll probably buy a 10/22.

Thanks again.
 
OK, this was me but during my early days when I tried to "cheat" and shoot more than two mags of 9 I found my flinch came back mid way through the second or third mag. It took me a good month to 6 weeks of shooting one or two of .22 then a single of 9 and back again before I licked my flinch finally... for a while. I've only been shooting handguns a year and a half now. And despite going through about 5 thousand rounds of 9mm in that time I still occasionally get that damned flinch coming back. When it does I haul out that trusty .22 and a couple of mags and lay it on the bench beside the CZ Shadow to work out the cobwebs and retrain myself. As with so many things YMMV.

I only started the .22 training after about my first 1000 rounds of 9mm. And it was a rental gun at the range I was shooting at a lot. So it's not like I had to justify my purchase of a .22 to go with my 9mm. It was my choice based on my own findings of how well it helped. You and others may find that you need it less or more. It's a personal thing. And as for having the same gun to shoot in the two calibers I honestly have not found that this was a big deal as long as the grip feel and angle was at least close. The rental .22 I shot alongside my Shadow was a S&W 22A. But it was easily close enough that it did it's job. It's more about learning to not flinch courtesy of the lesser recoil and to practice the proper trigger pull follow through even after the gun fires moreso than that it be the same gun in your hands. When you get around to snap aiming and firing off one or two rounds for IPSC practice that'll be a whole other story where the slight differences of your .22 flinch killer gun won't really matter.

Anyhow, I've said my bit and once you get shooting you may find that a conversion works for you or you may find that my preference for a separate gun suits you after all. Just keep it in mind. And maybe you can borrow a .22 to try it before you decide either way. Maybe treat a .22 pistol shooter to some 9mm time so you can do a back to back flowing switch or two in exchange to see if my own system has merit for you or not.
 
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