Looking for Hard-core 45-70 Loads to keep the furries from muching me!

rem338win

rem338win

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So I drank the kool-aid and I am now petrified of anything with fur and tooth when I am in the woods. So after reading all of the posts in every bear defense thread possible I have come to realize that every man that has ever survived a brush with a wild mammal has only done it with a horse shoe crammed in .......
if they didn't have a 45-70.:eek:
This epiphany that I had convicted me to buy the first 45-70 Guide Gun I could find without that ear-busting porting. The gentleman I bought it from has it in transit to me as we, uh, type. w:h:
So now I need to hear from the guru's; I want a hard hitting load with bullet weight in the 350-450gr range. If it happens to be a cast bullet that isn't purchasable, please offer to make me some if your going to tease me with it. :D
 
The factory loaded stuff is a fair amount milder then what people load for themselves...but the LeverEvolution is about the best in my opinion. Now, if you want to reload:D, the 45-70 starts to come alive....get a box of Bullet Barn 405's and some IMR 3031. 1600fps is about all the lead based ones can handle, but they pack a punch!! I load the gas checked ones to about 1800fps and that's enough for me!! Those speeds are safe in my GG, but your have to work up the loads yourself as your gun might be different.
 
thepitchedlink said:
The factory loaded stuff is a fair amount milder then what people load for themselves...but the LeverEvolution is about the best in my opinion. Now, if you want to reload:D, the 45-70 starts to come alive....get a box of Bullet Barn 405's and some IMR 3031. 1600fps is about all the lead based ones can handle, but they pack a punch!! I load the gas checked ones to about 1800fps and that's enough for me!! Those speeds are safe in my GG, but your have to work up the loads yourself as your gun might be different.
Click to expand...

Ok, Bullet Barn, where do I find them in Canada, and do they have a nice meplat? Are they soft enough to expand, or do they have some significant penetration? I have about 5lbs of IMR 3031 and 4198 so I hoped to start with these two and try others.
I plan on buying a box of Hornady 350gr RNs just cause.
I have bought I box of factory centerfire rounds in 5 years, so reloading is my way to go.


Let's get some more info here! Anyone have good reason to go Starline over Winchester for brass? I am about to cross the finishline to step onto backorder with Jerry for the Starline stuff.....
 
I have used Hornady 350g Flat points loaded to 2000fps (absolute max I would ever recomend) out of my GG with H 4198. I don't remember what brass I liked best but be carfull as I found a significant difference in powder required to achieve 2000fps between Rem and Win brass. I got chicken #### and later decided it best to keep it down to the 1900fps mark just so I wasn't pushing the limit to hard.

FWIW I like the flat point because it leaves clean 45 cal holes in the hide and is more likely to give decent wound channels and straight penetration (acts like a flat meplat hard cast) at longish ranges. Never did have to shoot game with it that far though. My gun is quite accurate and I have shot it all the way out to 300+ yards for fun. However I find it the most difficult rifle I own to shoot well, lots of vertical stringing (my fault) due to the stock design, high recoil and slow velocity (lots of bbl "time" and exaggerated movement)
 
Bullet Barn is Canadian, made on the Island. P&D used to have them. They don't seem to expand much...they just go through things. I shoot Win Brass, never tried anything else. Tailboss also has worked really well with the 405's as well, good groups even out to 100yds.
 
rem338win said:
Anyone have good reason to go Starline over Winchester for brass? ...
Click to expand...

Because they are a lot "tougher" than the WW. Full power loads in WW cases will cut their life down to 2 or 3 reloads where the same loads in Starline brass have gone 10+ firings for me.

The only downfall with the Starline is that if you load mild loads in them you can get a lot of black necks thanks to their failure to fully expand to chamber diameter during firing. Starline actually recommends annealing the case mouths to soften them if they are to be used with mild loads.
 
With the Marlin you can load the 45/70 to be an awsome stopper.The Bullet Barn is great, but I don't think they have gas check bullets.So if you want to keep them mild they are fine.
You can load the Marlin 1895 to do awesome things.I have loaded 405 gr in mine close to 2000 fps.That will stop anything on this Planet.
420-50 gr hard cast will stop anything.
 
If I were you this is what I'd do!!
Order a mold for a 405 grain bullet. Lee bullet mold 90491 $25
Buy some liquid alox. $6
Inquire at a tire store for a $20 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights. Using a hotplate, old pot and a laddle, cast bullets.
Go here for different light loads http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
And have as much fun as I did so far with the above info!!
My go to load is 12 grains of 700X behind a 405 grain as cast bullet in My H&R Buffalo Classic. Good for distances out to 500 yards target shooting(8' high X 8 wide at base' christmas tree shaped target). ;)
 
A decent load I am using is a 350 grain hornady fn over 48 grains imr 4198. shot my spring bear with it and 2 bucks this year and it worked good. Also makes enough noise and sprays enough dirt to scare off problem bears that are coming towards you. You can get these pretty much anywhere.

I used to buy 405 grain casts from russel (hopefully wholesale stocks them) made by Prarie bullets and they work well for a low buck plinking round over 30 grains imr 4198. Never tried them on game other than gophers but I can load them for the same price as my 17 hmr so they see use at the gopher fields some times. I think if you put a little more powder under these they would work pretty good for bear defense as well.
 
'Boo said:
Lois at the Bullet Barn casts a beautiful 405 grain gas checked .458. It is the cat's ass if you want a bullet that will penetrate until next week!
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I would have to agree,and when it comes to lead bullets i have yet to see or try anything better than the Bullet Barn bullets.Plus they are accurate.
 
I'm pretty sure this is the right load for the rounds that sit in the stock shell holder when this gun is brought for bears...

MT Chambers 480gr Hard cast WNFP GC with RP cases, #210 primers, 34gr of H4198. Notes say: Loud and big kick, rattles brain a bit, anti material round, 5" horizontal group. Quickload said: 1506fps at 33k psi.

I didn't go any higher and crono'ed a few of them at ~1550 fps with a 22" barrel.

I have full confidence that they would drop nearly anything, especially if you hit big bone.
 
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'Boo said:
Because they are a lot "tougher" than the WW. Full power loads in WW cases will cut their life down to 2 or 3 reloads where the same loads in Starline brass have gone 10+ firings for me.

The only downfall with the Starline is that if you load mild loads in them you can get a lot of black necks thanks to their failure to fully expand to chamber diameter during firing. Starline actually recommends annealing the case mouths to soften them if they are to be used with mild loads.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I'll place the order.
 
'Boo said:
Lois at the Bullet Barn casts a beautiful 405 grain gas checked .458. It is the cat's ass if you want a bullet that will penetrate until next week!
Click to expand...

Now this is what I was looking for. Well, I guess I better make an order. I have to get these. 1800fps eh? Looking forward to it. I gotta squirrel, lives in a tree just outside my door. Been eyein' me, and licking his freaky little chops. Sounds like these are just the ticket to stopping his little reign of terror.
 
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