best bolt gun ever/

Most rem. 700 will shoot rings around any of those over priced Euro-plastic guns, not that I don't like european rifles, I've always liked the M-S Full stocked rifles ala 1952.
 
Many of the guns being spoken of are out of reach of the average gun nut. Hell, I can't even afford a Sako! I like Remingtons and Rugers, would like to own a Savage, and am dreaming about a new Browning X Bolt. These are the more commonly available and affordable for most of us "Blue Collar" gun nutz!
 
logger thats your opinion that is best,every owner says his gun is best,i own sauer drilling and take down rifles, they are one of the best but u cant just say its best,
 
The savage 10 FCP is the best gun ever. This one is mine. If you don't also think this there is a pretty good chance you were dropped on your head when you were a baby. Unless you are thinking the model 70 is the best gun ever, then we are both right. Just joking of course, but the 10fcp and model 70 are both kick a$$

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I'm with Johnn Peterson on this one. Had a Sauer 90 in .300 Win Mag ; very nice smooth rifle. Sold it because it just wouldn't shoot with my Schultz's. I currently own Schultz's in .22-250, .264 Win Mag, 7x61S&H, 7mm Rem Mag, .308 Norma Mag, .338Win Mag, .358Norma Mag, and .378 Weatherby Mag. All of them will shoot well under 1" (most of them around 1/2") groups at 100 yds from a bench with FACTORY AMMO!!!! All will shoot 1/2" with proper handloads. I have owned rifles from all the major manufacturers at one time or another (I once had 16 Sako's) , and have never seen another factory rifle that can compete with Schultz's for accuracy.

Also, I remember reading a destruction test in I believe it was Gun & Ammo about 30 years ago. They tested a Mauser 98 action, a Rem 700 action, and a Schultz action to the point of destruction. This included double & triple charges of pistol powders and bore obstructions etc. The Mauser came apart at about 95000 psi, the Rem came apart at just under 100,000 psi. They were unable to blow the Schultz up. When they got to 112,000 psi, they had to beat the bolt open with a hammer & wooden block, and the brass (.30-06) was completely gone -- Vaporized!!! The barrel had burst from obstructions, but they sent the action for magnafluxing and it was pronounced safe! They then rebarrelled the gun with a new Schultz barrel and it shot factory ammo accurately. I wish I had saved the article but I didn't. The Schultz has rear locking lugs but they are massive! I don't think the Sauer's rear lugs would fare as well in a destruction test.

So for strength, accuracy, and fit & finish no factory rifle has ever matched the Schultz & Larsen IMHO.
 
Every Shultz and Larsen rifle I have owned [4 in all] have been superbly accurate, and the actions are very smooth, but as soon as you start loading them up, the brass life descends like an Eagle's a** in a powerdive. I experienced this phenomenon with both the 308 Norma Mag and the 7x61 S&H, so hardly think it was an individual rifle case. The actions are most certainly strong, but have some "spring" inherent with all rear locking actions, and that is poison to brass if one loads even a bit warm. Regards, Eagleye.
 
- Eagleye, I've never had a problem with brass life in my M-65DL Schultz & larsen in 308 NM. It's been comparable to that of any other bottle neck cartridge I've reloaded for. In my M-68DL Schultz & Larsen in 7x61 S&H, I can't really say yet as it's a fairly recent acquisition and I haven't put that much through it, ;)yet.

- daddylonglegs I agree. I've been lead to believe that their barrels are second to none in quality and so far I've found this to be so. I'm still hoping to eventually get one in 358 NM but until then, I have a very nice Husqvarna in that caliber on the way:D.

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- ben hunchak, if you want something with 'class' that can shoot, from the top down,
Schultz & Larsen, 308 NM.
Schultz & Larsen, 7x61 S&H.
Husqvarna, 30-06

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Now, If you're looking for something that's 'cost effective', but can shoot, 112 BVSS Savage comes to mind.

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If I want to 'shoot rings' on a target, I'll borrow ben's Rem 700:p
 
Have owned Larsens in 7x61 and 308 Norma. Beautiful guns and accurate. Remington is not in the same league even if you found one that's(consider yourself lucky) very accurate. I did however spring the action on one 308 with a hot load and then had a stiff bolt. I also like the Steyrs and Voere's.
We are not putting down inexpensive guns here, we all have some, but we are talking about guns with craftsmanship that are still reasonably priced.
 
Ever tried to get an empty or stuck shell out of the Shultz and Larsen? Dumb design, smooth action, no room for fingers in action. Must have been designed by a Euro tree hugger.
 
Eagleye said:
Every Shultz and Larsen rifle I have owned [4 in all] have been superbly accurate, and the actions are very smooth, but as soon as you start loading them up, the brass life descends like an Eagle's a** in a powerdive. I experienced this phenomenon with both the 308 Norma Mag and the 7x61 S&H, so hardly think it was an individual rifle case. The actions are most certainly strong, but have some "spring" inherent with all rear locking actions, and that is poison to brass if one loads even a bit warm. Regards, Eagleye.
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As I indicated in my earlier post, I haven't experienced any shortness of brass life in my 308 NM. As/the info on the target for the 308 NM, my load is a little higher than the suggested max in the present Sierra manual, but I believe it was the max in the previous edition of the manual. What may be helping me somewhat is I've extended the bullet out to minimize the freebore and as such, my C.O.A.L. is about 0.105" above that listed/suggested.

Again, with the 7x61 S&H, I haven't put that much through it yet but in this caliber, it was something I did have concerns on. The reason being, case variations in some of the later production runs. Specifically, the main change I was somewhat concerned about is the production run that was designated 7x61 'Super'. Apparently, in addition to some slight change to the profile of the inside of the case, the metallurgy was also changed to allow the case to be made thinner. Overall aim I would guess, to increase case capacity, likely to compete with the 7mm Renington Magnum.

A while back, I lucked into a sizeable supply of this 7x61 S&H 'Super' brass from Bashaw Sports. I have one box that's been reloaded fove times and so far so good. I still have a number of boxes of an older production run so I'll watch and keep track.
 
ben hunchak said:
Ever tried to get an empty or stuck shell out of the Shultz and Larsen? Dumb design, smooth action, no room for fingers in action. Must have been designed by a Euro tree hugger.
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If designed like a Remington 700, sticking may well be a design issue you'd have to contend with:p. Don't know about feeding it fingers but cartridges feed fine.
 
-Ben Hunchak: Never had a stuck case in 1000's of rounds fired in Schultz's. If a case is stuck to where the extractor tears the rim , what good is a fingernail going to do you?

-Eagleye: I have had no problems with shortened case life in Schultz's, but then I don't try to hotrod reloads either. If I need more power, I get a bigger gun! IMHO too many people are seduced by velocity. I don't think an animal can "feel" the difference between 3000 fps and 3200fps

-Johnn Peterson: You make a very valid point about the difference between 7x61 Re brass and 7x61 Super brass. My reloading "Bible" is Ken Waters Pet Loads Volume 1 & 2.
His articles on the 7x61 are the only manual I have seen that discusses in depth the difference between the 2 types of brass. Anytime I am starting with a new or unfamiliar caliber, I read Waters first. No one did indepth testing like Waters. My pet loads always end up very similar to his. It is a pity that his work is getting dated because of new powders and cartridges, because no one has stepped forward to carry on his work.
 
One really can't include Remington in the same sentence with the older Euro rifles mentioned as far as quality is concerned. Sad to say the new Sako/Tikkas etc don't compare well to the older models either. The superior quality of these older guns isn't availalable on the rack at Big Box Sporting Goods these days. Nice looking/shooting John. Did you happen to buy that 358 NM Husqvarna from the Great White North?
 
daddylonglegs said:
-Ben Hunchak: Never had a stuck case in 1000's of rounds fired in Schultz's. If a case is stuck to where the extractor tears the rim , what good is a fingernail going to do you?

-Eagleye: I have had no problems with shortened case life in Schultz's, but then I don't try to hotrod reloads either. If I need more power, I get a bigger gun! IMHO too many people are seduced by velocity. I don't think an animal can "feel" the difference between 3000 fps and 3200fps

-Johnn Peterson: You make a very valid point about the difference between 7x61 Re brass and 7x61 Super brass. My reloading "Bible" is Ken Waters Pet Loads Volume 1 & 2.
His articles on the 7x61 are the only manual I have seen that discusses in depth the difference between the 2 types of brass. Anytime I am starting with a new or unfamiliar caliber, I read Waters first. No one did indepth testing like Waters. My pet loads always end up very similar to his. It is a pity that his work is getting dated because of new powders and cartridges, because no one has stepped forward to carry on his work.
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:)I have the second edition of the same. You're quite correct as there are others like John Taffin that are good sources of info but none that have gone to the depth of Waters.

I agree with him being somewhat dated as far as cartridges and powder s are concerned but that's fine with what I'm into, calibers such as 219 Donaldson Wasp, 7x61 S&H, 308 NM, 303Br. and 348 WCF to mention a few;).

There are a few others like John Taffin for example, that have stepped up to the plate somewhat, but not to the same depth as Waters. And I concur with your take on velocity seduction. I've found, in most cases, my accuracy usually peaks just under many of the suggested maximums.
 
daddylonglegs said:
-

-Eagleye: I have had no problems with shortened case life in Schultz's, but then I don't try to hotrod reloads either. If I need more power, I get a bigger gun! IMHO too many people are seduced by velocity. I don't think an animal can "feel" the difference between 3000 fps and 3200fps

Well, I don't pack a 308 Norma Mag around to shoot 180 grain bullets at 2950 fps, either!! A very realistic figure for the Norma Mag in a 24" barrelled rifle with a front locking bolt is 3100 fps for the 180, 2975 or so with the 200. The original Norma factory loads bettered that 180 figure by about 40 fps, but the load has been "softened" a bit in recent years. I'm no nephyte reloader, having started in the early sixties. I do not believe in hotrodding any cartridge. If primer pockets open or there are any other signs that the load is a bit on the hot side, I will adjust accordingly. I agree that no animal will tell the difference, but I also believe in using any specific chambering to it's potential.
If I tried to get 3050 or better with my Schultz & Larsen 308 Norma rifle, cases would separate in 4-5 firings, and I was not setting the shoulder back excessively. But.....If I did not set the shoulder back slightly, you had difficulty chambering the reloaded round. This is an indication of "spring", something not evident in front locking action I have had in the same chambering. If it was only one rifle, I would have called it unique, but sadly, I have witnessed it in several S&L rear locking actions. [FWIW, I experienced similar results with the rear locking 788 Remington actions in at least 3 different chamberings] S&L are Great rifles, but just not for me. Regards, Eagleye.
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264magnum said:
One really can't include Remington in the same sentence with the older Euro rifles mentioned as far as quality is concerned. Sad to say the new Sako/Tikkas etc don't compare well to the older models either. The superior quality of these older guns isn't availalable on the rack at Big Box Sporting Goods these days. Nice looking/shooting John. Did you happen to buy that 358 NM Husqvarna from the Great White North?
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:D You bet!! It's on the way as we speak, a scope and set of dies have been arranged for plus I have seven boxes of Norma factory ammo patiently waiting and a quantity of brass is accompanying the rifle. I still would like to get a Schultz in 358 NM and I've passed up a couple of others but this one looks so 'pretty', I couldn't resist. If it shoots as good as it looks and the man says it does, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, I think there is soon to be another permanent member to my "European Community":D. A good match for my Dads '06 I inherited. It's starting to feel like Christmas.
 
Eagleye - I have not had the same experience with bolt-spring as you. Strange! Just out of interest have you ever tried duplicating the original Norma factory loading by using Norma powder? I have all the original Norma loading data, and have duplicated their loads to my complete satisfaction. Norma is the only company (to my knowledge) that sells the exact same powder to reloaders as they use in factory loads. It makes it real easy to duplicate factory loads. They have worked well for me, but sometimes it is hard to find Norma powders.
 
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