.357 Maximum

mechanic1908

mechanic1908

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Location
Ontariariario
I was just reading the October 1983 guns and ammo and came across a article by Bob Milek.
He's discussing top strap flame cutting and throat erosion in a Dan Wesson, Ruger Blackhawk and Contender pistol.
Does anyone know whatever became of the .357 maximum cartridge?
Does anyone own one and did they ever get the erosion,flame cutting issues resolved?
Later
Eric
 
Only place that I've ever seen them is in the Thompson Contenders.

I can't see how they would be much worse than any other cartridge. Might have a bit to do with the types of powder used but the Contender is chambered for nearly every cartridge ever dreamed up including some much hotter than that.

The article might be refering to really high volume silhouette shooters because I can't see anyone else loading hot enough or shooting enough to have a problem. Never had one myself though so there may be more to it.
 
I have one of each.10" SBH and an 8" DW 40S. The flame cutting was common in the 70's due to the heavy volume of high pressure loads used by silhouette shooters. It is what put the knock on the S&W 29 as a silhouette gun as well, the lockworks just wouldn't take the pounding. That's why S&W improved them. - dan
 
I thought the problem with the flame cutting on Rugers was due to people loading 158g or lighter bullets in them. IIRC, Elgin Gates designed the cartridge to shoot 180g or heavier bullets. I only ever shot 180g TMJ silhouette bullets or 195g cast out of my TC Contender. Didn't really see the point of the lighter bullets since they wouldn't take rams reliably at 200m.
 
Howdy ; I flamed cut the top strap in a ruger bisley 357 MAG. Pounds of win 296 and 190 grain gas check bullets .Silouette shooting . No big deal it was shallow in a beefy top strap . THEY resoved the flame cutting in MAX 357 by not making them .
 
When I was shooting silhouette a number of years ago, the 357 Maximum was quite popular in wheelguns. My solution to the rams was a 41 magnum. Many really liked the Maximum, but once the bad word got spread around, it's popularity dropped off a lot. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Erosion in the inside of the top strap, just above the forcing cone. caused by slow powders and heavy loads. Flame cut is basically a welding term, using a torch to cut metal, and the erosion in the top straps is cut in a similar fashion. Most magnum revolvers do this to some extent or another, the 357 Max just did it faster and more noticeably. - dan
 
The sudden popularity of the silhouette game took a lot of makers by surprise and made junk out of a lot of nice guns that were once thought to tough pieces. Must have been an intersting time to be in the race.

I've never even heard of anyone in Alberta shooting any kind of handgun silhouette and I actually shot smallbore and full bore for a couple years. Would sure love to try hunter class or something that doesn't need a bolt action 308 handcannon to get into.
 
It was popular in the late 70's and through the 80's. Died off after that, not enough participants. I recall the last match held out at Sherwood Park Fish and Game (a big silhouette club back in the day) when only two people showed up (no, I wasn't one of them). Made it easy to hand out the prizes though, lol. The equipment is all still around (rams etc), if people were interested probably something could be set up. It was a lot of fun at the time. Calgary too had a set up, west of the city. Folks there might still be at it, I don't know. I haven't heard of any though, and I probably would have, one way or another. Basically we ran three classes (yes, there are more); unlimited (bolt guns, modified Contenders, etc), big bore revolvers, and rimfire revolvers. Some damn fine shots on the range back then, very impressive. - dan
 
dan belisle said:
Erosion in the inside of the top strap, just above the forcing cone. caused by slow powders and heavy loads. Flame cut is basically a welding term, using a torch to cut metal, and the erosion in the top straps is cut in a similar fashion. Most magnum revolvers do this to some extent or another, the 357 Max just did it faster and more noticeably. - dan
Click to expand...

Errosion? What kind errosion? What am I looking for?
 
dan belisle said:
It was popular in the late 70's and through the 80's. Died off after that, not enough participants. I recall the last match held out at Sherwood Park Fish and Game (a big silhouette club back in the day) when only two people showed up (no, I wasn't one of them). Made it easy to hand out the prizes though, lol. The equipment is all still around (rams etc), if people were interested probably something could be set up. It was a lot of fun at the time. Calgary too had a set up, west of the city. Folks there might still be at it, I don't know. I haven't heard of any though, and I probably would have, one way or another. Basically we ran three classes (yes, there are more); unlimited (bolt guns, modified Contenders, etc), big bore revolvers, and rimfire revolvers. Some damn fine shots on the range back then, very impressive. - dan
Click to expand...

Dan, the targets were still there as of last year, but the range improvements they've done have basically removed all the stations for shooting and setting them up. Add to it the new rules of no shooting at items at ground level and, although not completely ruled out, it might be a tough sell on getting a match going. However, the new improvements were long overdue and making use of an area that was not getting used at all.

Of late, those targets got trundled out for a match that Steve U. put on every year on the main Rifle range and that was about it. With him stepping down from the Rifle chair and someone new in the position, I don't know if they will even be used.

If you know of someone that would USE the lot of them for their intended purpose, I'd really recommend them contact the SPFG exec and express interest.

I'd hate to see those awesome targets get sold as scrap, which give it a few years, and a view of them being surplus, could conceivably happen.
 
I just picked one up here last week on EE. Have been wanting a Ruger for years and saw no problems with them when shot with the proper loads, and that's 180 and 200 grainers. Bob Milek was the first writer to complain about them and admitted that he mainly used 38 and 357 with light loads. This was the recognized problem, but the press jumped on it. Dan Wesson saw no problems, but they did send all owners a spare barrel. The DW's had such a tight cylinder gap that their backstrap was in no danger. The cartridge was "the one to have for years". Freedom Arms is now the one to have and they never offered the Max on the grounds you could load their .357 as hot with no problems.

I haven't heard much about silhouette shooting in the west since the Canadian director (or dictatorship) went to Ontario and they had no interest out their own province. They do still shoot in Ontario.

I well remember lots of Provincials and Nationals at Sherwood Park and Battleford but have lost touch with everyone. Doug Hall from Wholesale was the last I kept in touch with but do know that Al Leander is still around.

We still shoot handgun silhouette here in Yellowknife using the rules from 20 years ago (too many now) along with Cowboy silhouette (lever actions only) and have quite a competitive crew. Still have my pair of XP's in full-house .308 and 220 grainers! And still have my "RAMASS" buckle from Elgin Gates, .......Royal And Manly Art of Silhouette Shooting!!

We may have to touch base with someone about those targets!
 
Yeah, the rules in IHMSA, like in any other modern sport, just got so silly it weren't hardly any fun anymore. Except, when you knock over your first ram with a .44 revolver, standing up on your hind legs and "shooting like a man" well, that grin lingers for several brewski's. Five rams standing, or hey, even ten chickens standing, and you tend to forget all those zeros on all the scorecards before! But then Elgin took a hate on for Freedom Arms, and he and his clique put a PRICE LIMIT in the definition of "Production," and that was the beginning of the end. Then the old guys, refusing to acknowledge that as your eyes fail, you no longer pursue victory, but rather give your time to grow the sport by helping others, started a whole new range of classes so they could put aperature sights and then optical sights on their guns. Kinda took away from the expertise needed to make a hit with iron, offhand at 200 Yards.

Paper silhouettes at the requisite ranges do serve for practice now as they did then, but the clang and flip, (or teeter) was kinda what made it all worthwhile. A certain fellow who lost his house to fire recently in YK had a chicken hop off the rail, do a summersault, and land back on the rail, (thereby scoring zero) when nicely hit by a .308 out of a bolt handgun. He probably remembers that shot almost as much as winning class at the Internationals.
 
ykkid said:
Yeah, the rules in IHMSA, like in any other modern sport, just got so silly it weren't hardly any fun anymore.
Click to expand...

At one time I was under the impression that there where maybe 2 or 3 different subdivisions for unlimited and hunter classes. Read a bit more and it started to be clear that there were probably a dozen or more different games going on. I can see how it must have become pretty silly.

Similar things were going on back in the late 80's when I was in archery. Too bad the spirit of a game always seems to be lost in the money and equipment race when people decide they have to exploit any loop-hole and win at any cost.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom